EGR. Not so good on a car with a few miles on the clock.

[Shadeyman]

I checked the service history also asked previous owners(2) to see if the EGR on our Multiwagon had ever been replaced or cleaned. Unfortunately the answer was no so I've decided to have a go myself because she's now got 97,000 on the clocks. Of course I searched the net first to get a better idea of what to do.
Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people complaining about the crap the EGR allows into the inlet side of the engine.

Example.

http://duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?p=91612

After searching and reading all morning.

I've found a lot of tuning products come with EGR delete kits(block off the EGR) to help reduce flat spots.
The EGR allows dirty, hot, burnt, sooty air into the inlet of the engine, whats the point in having an intercooler and air filter if the EGR allows the crap in anyway?
Regular cleaning/maintenance is essential.

So I'm blocking the EGR off this weekend after giving it a good clean.

If the EGR is functioning perfectly like in a brand new car then there's nothing to worry about but if your car has a few miles on it then the EGR is probabely doing more harm than good.

Anyone else runing their car with the EGR blocked, perhaps because of tuning or because you can't be arsed to strip and clean it every couple of thousand miles?

 

[herpsuk]

My mates not running one on his TD5 defender. Although thats due to tuning.

Intercooler + Disco Transfer + Massive Remap = **** loads of torque. It was one of the first mods he did even before a remap.

 

[Oakley28]

Cleaned mine (briefly) some while ago now though. May get round to it soon again, but weather is crap at the mo. Are you custom making a blocking cap or is there one to buy?

 

[Shadeyman]

Eventually found a useful thread.
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/227396-egr-blanking-jtd.html

 

[ChrisUK]

wow that's a crap load of soot.

Looks dirtier than the air inlet on my dads old Audi A4 1.9 100hp TDI that was running for years without a service and blown turbo seals .

 

[maddogmorg]

the EGR lowers temperatures in the engine, aimed mainly at lowering the amount of NOx (i think) produced. Without it you get more oxygen in the engine and more power.

Technically removing it is illegal.

 

[Oakley28]

Lol - I made 2 posts in linked thread. Good times.

 

[Shadeyman]

Without it you get more oxygen in the engine and more power.
Technically removing it is illegal.

I guess under tha new MOT laws due out next year it would be but for now I'll not be removing it, just blanking it off.

 

[maddogmorg]

I guess under tha new MOT laws due out next year it would be but for now I'll not be removing it, just blanking it off.

I'm not saying don't do it, just interfereing with a cars emmisions equipment is illegal. similar to how venting the crank case to atmosphere is also illegal on cars designed to put it into the inlet. and removing the Cat is.

 

[Shadeyman]

I'm not saying don't do it, just interfereing with a cars emmisions equipment is illegal. similar to how venting the crank case to atmosphere is also illegal on cars designed to put it into the inlet. and removing the Cat is.

I thought all this was not law yet but soon will be? I thought as long as the emmisions are ok you can modify what you like.

 

[Argonought]

the EGR lowers temperatures in the engine, aimed mainly at lowering the amount of NOx (i think) produced. Without it you get more oxygen in the engine and more power.

Only partly correct.

Don't forget EGR is ECU controlled and it's always firmly shut when any power demands are made of the engine.

Ask anyone with a remapped JTD and proper functioning EGR system :devil:

 

[Shadeyman]

Only partly correct.

Don't forget EGR is ECU controlled and it's always firmly shut when any power demands are made of the engine.

Ask anyone with a remapped JTD and proper functioning EGR system :devil:

Ever seen a highly tuned/race engine with an EGR valve. NO, now ask yourself why?

 

[Argonought]

Ever seen a highly tuned/race engine with an EGR valve. NO, now ask yourself why?

An EGR valve offers nothing at all for performance so why would you (just extra weight)

More importantly on a JTD it doesn't take away performance either as it's an integral part of the engine management system.

 

[Shadeyman]

More importantly on a JTD it doesn't take away performance either as it's an integral part of the engine management system.

Agreed, but only on a new or a very well maintained car.
Once a car has a few miles on the clocks the EGR gradually starts to effect performance, a well known problem.

As its only benefit is the reduction of NOx, by giving it a clean normal performance is acheived and by blocking it off it prevents the same problem happening over and over again. Nobody wants to keep dismantling the engine because the EGR keeps gunking up the intake or sticking open.

 

[Bushboy]

Nobody wants to keep dismantling the engine because the EGR keeps gunking up the intake or sticking open.

Cleaning the valve will just be something you can do as part of a yearly service. Takes 30 mins to remove, clean and refit.

I cleaned the EGR on our JTD just the other week and it was a simple job. I suspected it to be jammed pretty much the day after we bought the car as it starteded hesitating and the turbo failed to spool on a few occasions. Removed the valve and found that the spring was seized and the solinoid was too. A bit of carb cleaner and manual pressure on both parts had it freed up nicely. Put it back on and the car runs incredibly smooth.

The valve is there for a reason. If it served no purpose, fiat wouldn't have spent money fitting them.

It's all good saying that performance cars don't have them but then the Stilo isn't a performance car. No matter how much you tune it, it will never be one. Its a bloody Turbo diesel. God knows why you thought it was a good idea to buy a TD with the aim to tune it

ETA : Ours is on 126k. No problems with the EGR valve still on. Doesn't even have that silly swirl gasket.

 

[Shadeyman]

The valve is there for a reason. If it served no purpose, fiat wouldn't have spent money fitting them.

As I've already said, its there to reduce NOx but this only really works on new cars. As they age the EGR effects performance more and more.

It's all good saying that performance cars don't have them but then the Stilo isn't a performance car. No matter how much you tune it, it will never be one. Its a bloody Turbo diesel. God knows why you thought it was a good idea to buy a TD with the aim to tune it

The point is: Performance engines dont have them because they impair performance.

This is true of any engine they are fitted to especially as the engine ages. Including "a bloody Turbo diesel".

Everybody knows engines need clean cool air(Oxygen) to be able to perform well, thats why they have intercoolers and air filters. By allowing exhaust gases and gunk into the intake the engine is starved of Oxygen and performance is effected. It also cools the exhaust gases causing problems with the regeneration of any DPF's by not allowing the engine to produce high amounts of NO2 which oxidize the particulates.

 

[Argonought]

As its only benefit is the reduction of NOx, by giving it a clean normal performance is acheived and by blocking it off it prevents the same problem happening over and over again. Nobody wants to keep dismantling the engine because the EGR keeps gunking up the intake or sticking open.

If you're arguing that blocking the EGR will mean it will never stick open again then of course you're correct. There are some people that will do this and nothing you say will change their mind

BUT - why would anyone want to drive a car that's effectively been bodged (this would be the view of effectively any garage you took the car too).

If the car is serviced and maintained properly then it will continue to run that way for as long as the owner is prepared to support the serving costs.

I'm sorry but the argument that you should disable a system once it becomes (say) 50% effective at what it was designed to do is a nonsense.

Once disabled it's only 0% effective!

 

[Shadeyman]

I'm sorry but the argument that you should disable a system once it becomes (say) 50% effective at what it was designed to do is a nonsense.

Once disabled it's only 0% effective!

You should block the EGR as this is a 100% check to verify if this really is the problem.

0% effective also means 0% of a problem.

50% effective means its also 50% ineffective. Its the 50% ineffective that causes problems. Poor MPG, Poor performance etc. Blocking it off not only cures these problems it also prevents it happening again.
EGR's do reduce the amount of NOx without effecting performance when the engine is new. As the engine ages the EGR becomes more and more of a problem as we all know, so blocking it off prevents futher problems.

 

[Argonought]

I'd really appreciate if you didn't effectively paraphrase my own statements. Is it not easier to simply agree with someone ?

If you're arguing that blocking the EGR will mean it will never stick open again then of course you're correct.

is surely the same as saying

0% effective also means 0% of a problem

50% effective means its also 50% ineffective. Its the 50% ineffective that causes problems. Poor MPG, Poor performance etc. Blocking it off not only cures these problems it also prevents it happening again.

So you're actually saying you think the EGR system if only 50% effective (to say restricted air-flow due to carbon build up etc) could be a bit of a problem because you're worried about the 50% it could be doing.

You then suggest that blocking it to make it 0% effective would be good move as then it does nothing at all

Don't know what your smoking but looks like your logic has really gone out of the window on this one :shrug:

EGR's do reduce the amount of NOx without effecting performance when the engine is new. As the engine ages the EGR becomes more and more of a problem as we all know, so blocking it off prevents futher problems.

You keep saying that but do we ? I can only really speak for myself but mine has never been a problem

This seems a head in the sand mentality to me:
If I stop using a device then I'll never have an issue with it. Yes; but you also lose its function. Such self evident logic can be applied to anything :shrug:

 

[Shadeyman]

This seems a head in the sand mentality to me:
If I stop using a device then I'll never have an issue with it. Yes; but you also lose its function. Such self evident logic can be applied to anything :shrug:

Its only function is to reduce NOx.
While it does this very well, without effecting the performance on a new car, it does not work so well on older cars. In fact its a common problem that nearly all of us have encountered at some point.
Blocking it off cures all the problems it creates as the car ages, plus no one really cares about reducing the amount of NOx produced as long as the problems have gone.

This seems a head in the sand mentality to me:
I'll keep using the device even thought it reduces performance and costs me money because of poor MPG.