Technical Ducato 244 - both rear fog lights won't turn on, indicators are randomly speeding up

[jamesbond2]

Hello,

what should I check beside fuses .. both my rear fog lights are not working (connectors have been replaced, there is no 12v on fog light cable leading to connector to rear light.
And when I turn on hazard warning lights or indicators, sometimes they randomly speed up like one of them is not working or something like this, but they seem to be working all .
Is this relay problem?

 

[bugsymike]

Sounds like a bad earthing problem to me.
When hazard or indicator lights speed up check which lights are not working or misbehaving and maybe try a temporary earth wire to that lamp unit to see if it starts working.

 

[Communicator]

Hello,

what should I check beside fuses .. both my rear fog lights are not working (connectors have been replaced, there is no 12v on fog light cable leading to connector to rear light.
And when I turn on hazard warning lights or indicators, sometimes they randomly speed up like one of them is not working or something like this, but they seem to be working all .
Is this relay problem?

Nah! No discretely mounted relay involved. However I would not rule out a relay internal to the "Switch Control Panel", H090, which is buried in the dash behind the auxilliary switches. This unit, which is shown as containing electronics, also controls the direction indicators. I am not aware of any published details of the inner workings of the Switch Control Panel, but it does have obscure control of headlamps. I have constructed my own wiring table for the Switch Control Panel which I will attach in pdf format. For elimination check (confirm outputs from) fuses F24, and F37, in the LH Cab Fusebox (B002) with ignition ON.

Also to confirm the basics, you will require headlights on, for rear fogs to illuminate.

Please note that on eLearn diagram E2031 (attached) the main/dip beam selector switch immediately below the"I" of Ignition Switch should permanently connected to connector terminal B4 below it. For explanation the dip beams remain on, when main beam selected (E2012 is Main Beams).

To help others please report on what you find.

 

[Communicator]

Sounds like a bad earthing problem to me.
When hazard or indicator lights speed up check which lights are not working or misbehaving and maybe try a temporary earth wire to that lamp unit to see if it starts working.

I had not considered that this could be a MH, where the rear earths will differ from the OEM as on my PVC.

 

[jamesbond2]

Hello,

The indicators were fixed by not good fit of fuse into holder, but fog lights still not working so I went through all other fuses , checked for continuity and if they all fit tight = all ok.

I have checked F24, F37 and F33 and all of them are okay (tested with continuity)

I have disassembled part of dashboard to get to H090.
I have tried to do some measurements:
On connector B:
Output pin 1 and pin 2 are always 0V after turning fog lights on.
Input pin 3 is always 12V

On connector A:
Input pin 2 is 12v with ignition ON.

On connector D:
Input pin 18 is 12v

It seems to me that H090 is bad, I have disassembled it and I can see there are relays in there, but this is probably where it ends for me.

If I want to get replacement do I need exactly same number ?
Because I can not find anywhere on used parts sales , part with number "17003" ?
Or any other number will work without reprogramming ? Because I do not have any way to reprogram ECU , then I will probably make bypass with switch between pins 3 and 1,2 on connector B

 

[Communicator]

Hello,

The indicators were fixed by not good fit of fuse into holder, but fog lights still not working so I went through all other fuses , checked for continuity and if they all fit tight = all ok.

I have checked F24, F37 and F33 and all of them are okay (tested with continuity)

I have disassembled part of dashboard to get to H090.
I have tried to do some measurements:
On connector B:
Output pin 1 and pin 2 are always 0V after turning fog lights on.
Input pin 3 is always 12V

On connector A:
Input pin 2 is 12v with ignition ON.

On connector D:
Input pin 18 is 12v

It seems to me that H090 is bad, I have disassembled it and I can see there are relays in there, but this is probably where it ends for me.

If I want to get replacement do I need exactly same number ?
Because I can not find anywhere on used parts sales , part with number "17003" ?
Or any other number will work without reprogramming ? Because I do not have any way to reprogram ECU , then I will probably make bypass with switch between pins 3 and 1,2 on connector B
View attachment 439736

A very interesting post. I have never looked inside the unit, as I have not had the need. Can you post a photo of the H090 internals?

On reading the testing carried out, I cannot see mention of 0V at pin 17 connector D. However this is dipped beam command, so perhaps you confirmed that dipped beams were on?

For part number I think that you should be searching with "Fiat 7353387570". This brings several results on ebay.co.uk, however price asked is about 100 GBP used. However the search results were for 7353387550, but did specify 2002 - 2006.

I do not think that the units can be programmed, just hard wired logic. It seems from my ebay search that there is some variation in part numbers. I am not aware of any wiring differences for x244 models (2002 - 2006), except for when options are fitted, so perhaps these different part numbers indicate design changes.

 

[jamesbond2]

A very interesting post. I have never looked inside the unit, as I have not had the need. Can you post a photo of the H090 internals?

On reading the testing carried out, I cannot see mention of 0V at pin 17 connector D. However this is dipped beam command, so perhaps you confirmed that dipped beams were on?

For part number I think that you should be searching with "Fiat 7353387570". This brings several results on ebay.co.uk, however price asked is about 100 GBP used. However the search results were for 7353387550, but did specify 2002 - 2006.

I do not think that the units can be programmed, just hard wired logic. It seems from my ebay search that there is some variation in part numbers. I am not aware of any wiring differences for x244 models (2002 - 2006), except for when options are fitted, so perhaps these different part numbers indicate design changes.

Yes sorry forgot about that. At pin 17 I measured when dipped beam is on, there is 0V . When only park / position lights is on, there is 12V on pin 17.
Few pictures of PCB.

Switches and relays can be replaced (re-soldered).
Switch definitely works as it turns on led for fog light button.
And about relay , I am not sure which one of these 4 it is and I have no idea how to test it on PCB or if it need to be de-soldered first to test.

 

[HughJampton]

For part number I think that you should be searching with "Fiat 7353387570". This brings several results on ebay.co.uk, however price asked is about 100 GBP used. However the search results were for 7353387550, but did specify 2002 - 2006.

Looking at the printed part number (7353387570) this is not searchable on ePer, and I suspect it is the generic number for the fascia/surround.

What ePer does show is a different number for each combination of controls set within that fascia (i.e. a part number which consists of the fascia and the desired controls/indicators).

The following is an example; there are other listings for different base vehicle variants (though I suspect the correct selection would fit different variants).

55503/00 - VARIOUS CONTROL PUSH BUTTONS AND SWITCHES

FIAT DUCATO RESTYL. BZ/DS (2001-2006)

eper.fiatforum.com

The E0nn options are the included functions, and can be checked by hovering over the "i" Icon for each part.

You would need to search for the part with the desired/currently fitted functions included.

 

[Communicator]

Thanks for the flood of photos. I have examined some over my breakfast, with keen interest.

I do not know how far you wish to investigate this problem, as it may not be possible with available information.

My current thinking is that it will require a minimum of 2 single contact NO relays to select direction indicators/hazard lights, 1 for each side of vehicle. and driven by electronic pulse generator(s), or could these just connect to a heavy duty pulsing relay?

My reasoning suggests that the pair of relays mentioned above would be identical. This could leave the relay xxxxxx - A408. My reasoning could be wrong.

Testing the relay coils may be possible by using the "diode" test facility on a multimeter, but be aware of parallel diodes.

I am attaching some Tyco relay data, but this is dated 2016.