Technical Ducato 1989 2.5d diesel leak/engine issue?

[pyfd]

Hi all, just got to Switzerland after driving down through Germany and have some engine issues

Intermittent smell of diesel/fuel in the cab.

It's a 2.5d - had engine swap 4 years ago after cam belt went and has been all good since then.

Looking at the engine there are three issues

1. 'Steam' coming from the oil filler cap
2. Glistening/wet patches where the rubber 'fuel?' pipe joins one of the (5) metal pipes coming out from the front top of engine
3. A bubbling from one of the four points lower down on the front of the engine (the glow plugs?) Which are connected by a metal rail. Bubbling coming from where screws into the engine. See pictures.

The engine was low on oil. I've topped up and it sounds normal when starting and driving.

Any advice gratefully received! Sooo hope it's not terminal but am finding it hard to stay positive.

If any further pictures or info needed please let me know.

Thanks in advance, Paul

 

[bugsymike]

I would take the plastic cover off top of engine and check for injector pipe leaks from leak off pipes, if it was the high pressure pipes you would have a misfire, so most likely the low pressure returns to the fuel tank.
I think what you are referring to as a rubber pipe is a sealing gasket where the four high pressure injector pipes lay, unless you are referring to the rubber pipe at the end which is the low pressure "leak off" return.
You will see better with the plastic cover off.
From memory any diesel leak collects at the side of the head casting over a period of time until going up an inclne etc. where it is now pouring onto the side of the hot engine giving you the smell.
Bubbling around heater plugs is only showing due to diesel oil around them and though not common is not unusual around them and injectors until it becomes a loud spitting noise!
Re "steam" from oil filler assuming no coolant water loss and no oil contamination, grey on dip stick etc. Before your current trip had the vehicle been unused for a length of time and no recent oil change? Water/condensation can occur in oil left cold for long periods. Also what does the temperature gauge show, if it generally runs on the cool side below normal, then the only time the oil has reached it correct operating temperature was pulling up in to the mountains.
Apart from the other checks as mentioned and hose leaks fixed if that is the case, I would advise a new thermostat and a oil change and filter using the correct grade of oil for your climate where you use the vehicle. Engines run best with temp gauge in the middle.

 

[pyfd]

I would take the plastic cover off top of engine and check for injector pipe leaks from leak off pipes, if it was the high pressure pipes you would have a misfire, so most likely the low pressure returns to the fuel tank.
I think what you are referring to as a rubber pipe is a sealing gasket where the four high pressure injector pipes lay, unless you are referring to the rubber pipe at the end which is the low pressure "leak off" return.
You will see better with the plastic cover off.
From memory any diesel leak collects at the side of the head casting over a period of time until going up an inclne etc. where it is now pouring onto the side of the hot engine giving you the smell.
Bubbling around heater plugs is only showing due to diesel oil around them and though not common is not unusual around them and injectors until it becomes a loud spitting noise!
Re "steam" from oil filler assuming no coolant water loss and no oil contamination, grey on dip stick etc. Before your current trip had the vehicle been unused for a length of time and no recent oil change? Water/condensation can occur in oil left cold for long periods. Also what does the temperature gauge show, if it generally runs on the cool side below normal, then the only time the oil has reached it correct operating temperature was pulling up in to the mountains.
Apart from the other checks as mentioned and hose leaks fixed if that is the case, I would advise a new thermostat and a oil change and filter using the correct grade of oil for your climate where you use the vehicle. Engines run best with temp gauge in the middle.

Hi Mike, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

I will try to take the cover off and inspect tomorrow.

I am referring to the rubber pipe at the end. Where it joins to the 5th metal pipe coming out - I think poss there may be a leak. I didn't realise fuel was coming out of engine here. Tomorrow I will remove and inspect. If I understand correctly this is the leak off return.

Vehicle was in regular/occasional use over the last 3 months or so. Had oil and filter change 3 months ago.

No grey on disptick/oil contamination.

Temperature normally runs just below the middle, if going up hill temp climbs until fan kicks in.

Thanks again. Paul

 

[pyfd]

Hi Mike,

So an update. Removed the black pipe (which I understand is the 'low pressure' leak off return from the injectors). Found a split behind the end top end where was glistening.

Cut down and refitted, feeling pleased with myself.

Next day was improved (reduced smell of diesel) but not fully resolved and still glistening after 2 hours driving.

Checked jubilee clip tension and it 'popped' on tightening further. Replaced jubilee clip, tightened and after another 2 hour drive is all good! No smell of diesel. Big thanks for your advice - I was making it too complicated!

 

[bugsymike]

Excellent, pleased for you.

 

[pyfd]

Hi Mike (and all..)

So the plot thickens. After two days the diesel smell started again. Same tell tale glistening on the pipes. This time I went to a motor factors and got a replacement pipe and jubilee clips. Fitted but the problem persists. Very frustrating as really thought I'd found the problem with the split pipe..

I've taken the plastic engine cover off and there was a small pool of diesel in the recess by the second injector pipes (see pictures).

Is it safe to run the engine with the cover off? I'd like to do this to see if I can observe a leak.

Any other thoughts or suggestions gratefully received!

Thanks, Paul

 

[pyfd]

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Mike (and all..)

So the plot thickens. After two days the diesel smell started again. Same tell tale glistening on the pipes. This time I went to a motor factors and got a replacement pipe and jubilee clips. Fitted but the problem persists. Very frustrating as really thought I'd found the problem with the split pipe..

I've taken the plastic engine cover off and there was a small pool of diesel in the recess by the second injector pipes (see pictures).

Is it safe to run the engine with the cover off? I'd like to do this to see if I can observe a leak.

Any other thoughts or suggestions gratefully received!

Thanks, Paul

If the engine is running happily on all four cylinders then the leak is most likely still from a leak off pipe, just seen your photo , so it is the plastic pipes between the metal leak off connectors on the injectors, strange they don't usually give trouble unless interfered with as they are hard plastic and once in place don't move around.
Correct solution is a new leak off rail, probably with the two copper washers either side of each bolt from the injectors, note bolts are very small and mustn't be overtightened or will snap and fittings will not like too much pulling around as only small.
As it is a low pressure leak off pipe it could be possible to fit a new rubber fuel hose of that diameter in place of the leaking one.
Many vehicles have push on rubber hoses between the injectors for leakoff, older VWs with Bosh injectors etc.
Though you would have a bit of a fiddle removing the old plastic without damage to the fittings, maybe a hot air gun on a low setting to soften the hard plastic. Diesel fuel is fairly safe with a little hot air but don't over do it and no naked flames.
The plastic cover over the cylinder head is more for sound deadening purposes so can run without it whilst checking for leaks.
I can't see a clip on the plastic pipe doing much good as too brittle to tighten, so either a suitable fuel resistant rubber hose, if a tight fit probably will not need clips , but check when running.
Ideally a new leak off return rail as mentioned if available, remember many manufacturers used that Sofim engine apart from Fiat.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

I agree with Mike thinking could be leaking leak off hard plastic pipe connecting injectors.

If I found the leak to be enough of a nuisance I would use a sharp knife to slit the hard plastic pipe where it is pushed onto the injectors - remove the plastic pipe and replace with rubber hose . Rubber hose snuggly fitting won't require retaining clips as there should be no pressure in leak off return.

I am not a fan of the hard plastic pipes.

Best wishes

Jack

 

[pyfd]

Thanks Mike and Jack for your prompt and valuable replies.

Engine is running well (other than smell of diesel at low speeds/coming to stop/pulling off - no real smell when cruising at 50 mph ish).

The hard leak off pipes haven't been touched as far as I know. Does seem odd to have an issue there at same time as split in the other hose (as resolved) but not impossible I know.

Will do some testing tomorrow morning and let you know. Only have 300 miles odd to go now so just have to manage but family not loving the fumes

If I do find leak in plastic pipe can I do temp fix with gaffa or electrical tape? Probably a no no I realise - just trying to see what I could do with what I have available..

Thanks again, Paul

 

[bugsymike]

If I do find leak in plastic pipe can I do temp fix with gaffa or electrical tape? Probably a no no I realise - just trying to see what I could do with what I have available..

Thanks again, Paul

Tape will not work, the fuel will undo the glue on tape. If possible do one of the solutions we suggested.