Punto (Mk2/2b) Drive belt broken

[Italian Tony]

Hi All,

I am in need of help with a drive belt (not timing belt) issue I am experiencing, with my Fiat Punto MK2 1.9 JTD (2002) here it goes:

A tensiones of the drive belt has come loose and so as the belt, when this happened I stopped the car to see what the noise was but not being able to start it again.

A local mechanic has told me that once a drive belt get loos as mine did there is a high chance 99.99% that the valve have bent even so the cam belt is still intact hence the reason why the car is not starting

I note from some posts I have read, the that should still start without the drive belt and if the Cam belt snaps these engines may be safe as this would not damage the engine, is this the case?

So as it stands I have a car with no drive belt that does not start, I could purchase a tensioner/pulley and a new belt however I am a bit weary I buying spares if the fix would not work.

Could the lack of drive belt stop the engine from starting?

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Tony.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

When the engine is running power from the alternator charges the battery.

When the belt failed the alternator would no longer charge and very quickly the battery will start to die.

You stopped the car and it's likely that while there was power to keep the car running there is no longer power to start the engine again.

Unless you plan to scrap the car you will need to replace the belt and tensioner.

If it is only the aux drive belt then it should have no impact at all on the cambelt

 

[Ziggy122]

Drive belt is a weird name to call it

Its auxillary or cambelt

If a tensioner fails on the auxilary side, its usually a new one and off you go
It turns things likr alternators, a/c, power steering, even some water pumps sometimes


If its the cambelt, only the fire petrols were safe engines (it snaps but piston and valves dont make contact)
But I believe all others do!

Which belt has snapped?
Aux or cam

Ziggy

 

[Italian Tony]

Hi Andy and Ziggy, many thanks for your reply the belt I make reference to is the auxillary one which has not snapped but is extremely loose, it can be lifted off the pulleys very easily. Due to work restrains I called a mechanic and is feed back was that the car should start and run without an auxillary belt and as it does not start it must mean the cam belt is broken and would cost a lot of money to fix it, this was all established by a visual check and nothing more. I have some spare time today so I will check the cam belt today. I do hope the cam belt to be intact and it's just a matter of renewing a auxillary tensioner and belt. Scrapping the car is not an option I would like to consider, for the year it is very clean and it has been a very reliable car for the past 12 to 13 year, in fact it's the second time it's broken. I will carry out and investigation today and will report later.

All advise and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

Tony.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi Andy and Ziggy, many thanks for your reply the belt I make reference to is the auxillary one which has not snapped but is extremely loose, it can be lifted off the pulleys very easily. Due to work restrains I called a mechanic and is feed back was that the car should start and run without an auxillary belt and as it does not start it must mean the cam belt is broken and would cost a lot of money to fix it, this was all established by a visual check and nothing more. I have some spare time today so I will check the cam belt today. I do hope the cam belt to be intact and it's just a matter of renewing a auxillary tensioner and belt. Scrapping the car is not an option I would like to consider, for the year it is very clean and it has been a very reliable car for the past 12 to 13 year, in fact it's the second time it's broken. I will carry out and investigation today and will report later.

All advise and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

Tony.

Hi,
move plastic cambelt covers, and check for debris,
you don't need to remove much to see what's what..,

TBH if there's any sign of the cambelt losing time, the engine will need LOTS of work

the engine SHOULD still turn over - with the alternator drive belt removed - assuming there is enough power in the battery (may not have been charging well with slipping belt)
Charlie - Oxford

 

[Italian Tony]

Hi all, here goes a brief update,
I removed part of the cam belt cover and can confirm the belt to be intact although with a minor tear in one location.

Here's my plan of action.

Rotate the cam belt and check the pulleys marks are in the correct place, this should confirm the timing to be correct or not, if the timing is ok then replace the cam belt. Reassemble covers.

Next replace tensione on auxiliary belt and fit new belt. Finger crosses the car should be ok.

The only doubt I have is that although the battery has been fully charged the car still does not start without the auxiliary belt. I suppose the easiest and cheapest way would be to put the auxiliary belt on and try the engine however due to the minor rip on the cam belt I do not want to test my luck in running the engine until a new cambelt is on.

Work scheduled for monday, more updates to follow.

Wish me luck has is is the first time I will be working on an cam belt.

Many thanks

Tony.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi all, here goes a brief update,
I removed part of the cam belt cover and can confirm the belt to be intact although with a minor tear in one location.

Here's my plan of action.

Rotate the cam belt and check the pulleys marks are in the correct place, this should confirm the timing to be correct or not, if the timing is ok then replace the cam belt. Reassemble covers.

Next replace tensione on auxiliary belt and fit new belt. Finger crosses the car should be ok.

The only doubt I have is that although the battery has been fully charged the car still does not start without the auxiliary belt. I suppose the easiest and cheapest way would be to put the auxiliary belt on and try the engine however due to the minor rip on the cam belt I do not want to test my luck in running the engine until a new cambelt is on.

Work scheduled for monday, more updates to follow.

Wish me luck has is is the first time I will be working on an cam belt.

Many thanks

Tony.

Hi Tony,
did you manage to find info on the timing marks etc?

IF / when you change the belt;
remove the crank outer pulley, as it'll be in the way..
I would also slacken the tensioner,

I'd be tempted to push the existing belt as far along the toothed pulleys as possible -towards block

then offer -up the new belt..,there may well be white lines that SHOULD correspond with the timing marks( a good double check)

If all lines up,
I'd be tempted to leave the NEW belt on pulleys- guaranteeing the timing cannot move - the on a longer run ( accessible) cut through the old belt, and remove.

have fun...??

where are you / the car based?

Charlie - Oxford

 

[Italian Tony]

Hi Varesecrazy,

I've not started the job yet, not been able to find time, with any luck I will start tomorrow afternoon.

Just tried looking for any timing marks on the net but all I seem to find is a mark guidance on the cam shaft pulley and nothing on the crank shaft pulley other than suggestions and recommendations to purchase and use a crankshaft timing tool. Is this tool necessary? Does any of our member know of any markings on the crank shaft pulley?

I will keep the postings going until I get a result (good or bad).

Chat soon

Tony (Wolverhampton)

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Does the engine turn over then you start it ?

It's quite possible the aux belt has damage the crank position sensor and so the ecu doesn't know that the engine is turning.

This is only a theory, I don't actually know where the sensor is on this engine, but it's a point to investigate

 

[varesecrazy]

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/298024-jtd-timing-belt-2.html

useful info ; https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/180768-timing-belt-110-jtd-2.html

 

[Italian Tony]

Hi all,

Finally I managed to get some spare time and some dry weather to work on my punto.

Although the drive-belt (auxiliary belt) and tensioner had broken the car would not start because some of the drive belt had got stuck/tangled behind the Crank pulley (see photo) which was making the engine turn slower than needed.

I untangled the string of belt away from the crank pulley and the car started no problem.

Whilst the car was on the jack I replaced the Cam belt which was a lot easier that I thought, all pulleys and casings had marks allowing me to align CAM and Crank correctly. for me the hardest par was replacing the auxiliary belt, the alternator had no play and the new tensioner was really hard to pull back to allow enough freedom to install the belt. Anyway after lots and lots op patient and different ways to get the pulley back it all went in and the car is back to normal now.

Thanks you all for your assistance, happy motoring.

Hopefully the photo will up-load.

Tony.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi Tony,
glad it's all back together and working,

the new belt may well bed-in with use.., is it an auto-tensioner?

that'll cope with minor differences in tension

Charlie

 

[Brendan W]

Hi Tony. You are very lucky. Usually when the drive or auxiliary belt gets into the timing belt it will cause the timing belt to jump teeth and damage the valves. Your mechanic is right about the 99.99% but then there is always the 0.01% Well done

 

[flisko]

Hi Tony. You are very lucky. Usually when the drive or auxiliary belt gets into the timing belt it will cause the timing belt to jump teeth and damage the valves. Your mechanic is right about the 99.99% but then there is always the 0.01% Well done

like winning the lottery lucky

 

[atom0007]

Nice to see someone closing out a post!

 

[Italian Tony]

Hi Varesecrazy, the car is fitted with a auto-tensioner which is like a pulley on a coil spring, if anyone ever has the need to fit one of these I managed to release the tension with the use of a chain wrench normally used to remove an oil filter, I was able to slide the chain round the spring block managed to get a firm grip allowing me to pull the pulley down. I hope the above makes sense, it should do to people who are familiar with the tensioner. I have been out and about in the car today and had a pleasant drive.

 

[bluejohn125]

That broken belt is truly shocking... you must be pleased that you've sorted everything out with nice new stuff all adjusted correctly, and have a sweet running little Fiat engine pulling you around once again.