General Diesel or petrol?

[str4tm4n]

Which is best to drive, the 1.2 pertol or the diesel? I'm looking to buy into the cheap road tax so these are my options. Fuel economy isn't really an issue as it's not going to do a stellar mileage.

I haven't driven the diesel but I have the 1.2 and if I'm honest, it felt a bit slow....

 

[Ulpian]

Fuel economy isn't really an issue as it's not going to do a stellar mileage.

You've answered your own question. The 1.2 will seem a bit slower than the present Diesel (less torque), but this costs more and has DPF problems.

The new 90 Diesel will be both quick and very economical, but it isn't here yet and it will be expensive. If your mileage is low then stick to the well sorted and economical 1.2.

 

[str4tm4n]

Ulpian, cheers for that. I have read of problems with diesel finding its way into the sump on constant short journeys but I'm not clear what you mean by DPF problems?

My wife has a ten year old Seicento and like the Panda she had for ten years before that (with the superb (Fire?) engine) it just goes better and better the more miles it clocks up. I remember test driving a Seicento and thinking that felt a bit slow compared to the Panda. I realise a new engine is tight and needs some miles to loosen up and I guess I'm asking this question on the forum in the hope that people who have a 1.2 might confirm that this is indeed what I experienced.

I'm attracted to the diesel as a result of my experience with my own car. I'm on my third Volvo V70 and I reluctantly went diesel with the last (present) one because a change of job meant a big hike in mileage and double the mpg seemed like a smart move. What I wasn't expecting though is how much better it is to drive than the petrol - much quicker (even though the official figures suggest otherwise) in acceleration and because of all the extra torque, much more fun and rewarding. It even sounds rather good (ok, not on tick over..). It's a cracking engine.

I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more more about this 90 diesel. Are there still plans to bring out a two cylinder petrol?

 

[zanes]

Yes, the 1.2 loosens up plenty after a few thousands miles.

DPF- Diesel Particulate Filter. Basically, in order to meet emissions legislation (especially particulates- very fine soot) manufacturers fit a DPF to the exhaust of diesels to literally filter the soot out of the exhaust gases, using a honeycomb type structure (think ceramic cadbury's crunchie!) to trap the soot.

Regeneration- as the DPF filters soot it starts to get clogged. The engine management computer can calculate when it needs to be cleaned. Rather than having it manually changed or cleaned the computer can adjust the injection parameters to make the DPF very hot (it is just off the manifold iirc) so the soot is burnt off. In order to do this the engine needs a good fast hot run (10-15 mins at 70 on motorway iirc) every so often (think weeks rather than months). If this does not happen the DPF will keep clogging and clogging until it must be forced to regenerate (at dealer) and in extreme circumstances serious problems can occur. Ergo, don't just use it for town trips.....

 

[Ulpian]

I'm attracted to the diesel as a result of my experience with my own car.

Me too.

But Zanes is right about the DPF. All makers seem to have problems with them, and Fiat seems anecdotally to be better than most by the way. But they do demand a regular dose of regular longish runs - say fifteen minutes.

The 'new' 90 is the current 1.3 with the improved Multijet2 technology, which gives much more power, better torque, and vastly better mpg ( possibly over 70mpg realtime) and an improved DPF as well - apparently. Fast and economical then!

There's bumpf on this site about it, but it arrives this year - soon. As does the new twin 0.9, which should give c 80 - 105 hp in turbo form and excellent mpg. It will also come in under the 100gm/km CO2 limit. According to Fiat this engine will be with us before the end of the year and will replace the current 1.2 in all applications.

 

[306maxi]

Which is best to drive, the 1.2 pertol or the diesel? I'm looking to buy into the cheap road tax so these are my options. Fuel economy isn't really an issue as it's not going to do a stellar mileage.

I haven't driven the diesel but I have the 1.2 and if I'm honest, it felt a bit slow....

If you're not going to do much mileage why not just go for the 1.4?

 

[Ulpian]

If you're not going to do much mileage why not just go for the 1.4?

Some people do find the poor lock a problem, and the tax bracket isn't the best.

This is the endless 500 question isn't it: which bloody engine!

 

[str4tm4n]

That all sounds like something to be avoided if the diesel's big selling point (fuel economy) isn't such an important consideration, especially as the 1.2 has great mpg and the diesel is more expensive in the first place.

James May goes on a lot about the joy in driving his 1.2 Panda being the need to rev it and work the gears and I know where he's coming from. It's what makes the Seicento so much fun and the reason I use it rather than my Volvo so often. It is in the end the essence of small Fiats and they're very good at making them. My first car was a Fiat 600 which was a year older than me and it was great fun. Small Fiats are much more sophisticated now (maybe too sophisticated in the case of the diesel!) but they still offer real driving entertainment.

 

[Ulpian]

Looks like your on to the right one to me I had an Uno with the 903 engine once and it was one of the best cars I've ever had: never anything less than fun to drive - still miss it sometimes. Unburstable too.

 

[Jake_in_notts]

I have a diesel and love the drive of it, nice punchy acceleration and great mpg at constant speeds.

I do mostly city driving ~30mins to work and the diesel does take longer to warm up and demist the car than i would like esp at this time of year. I also do a few long jouneys and recently did nottingham to Shewbury and back with an average of 70.5mpg .

Ive had no problems with dpf, mine happens about once a week and usually can be completed if i take a bit of a detour home and gun it keeping the revs above 3K.

Given the same choice I would certanly go for diesel again, esp if the new diesel is available and wasnt too much more (+£1500 is too much of a premium)

 

[str4tm4n]

Not another car with a poor lock!! My Volvo is terrible. It's embarassing when people watch you manoeuvre and assume you're hopeless at it when in fact the wheels just wont turn sharply enough to execute what should be something simple..

I was under the impression that both the 1.2 and the diesel were in the £35 a year tax bracket - which is the attraction over the 1.4.

 

[306maxi]

Some people do find the poor lock a problem, and the tax bracket isn't the best.

This is the endless 500 question isn't it: which bloody engine!

Yeah but if you're only driving the car for short distances economy isn't really much of an issue and whilst tax is an extra cost you've also got to remember that the 1.4 will undoubtedly be better to drive and a better car for the motorway.

 

[Ulpian]

The 1.4 is in a higher bracket, and the lock is poor because it has a six speed box clogging up the space between the wheels and so limiting their articulation. Some people don't care, but there are posts here about the irritations caused when doing three pointers.

I'm sure the Diesel is a good engine if it isn't just used for short runs. I know for a fact that the Polo Blue Motion Eco Diesels give nothing but grief when used exclusively on very short urban runs; but, when driven like stink by drivers who don't give a damn, they are pretty good. Some people just potter and bugger the DPFs up.

 

[str4tm4n]

I've always felt a car benefits from being driven vigorously which is why I take out the Seicento for a thrash on a regular basis to make up for the 20 gentle miles it does everyday when my wife drives to work in it.

-That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[SmoothHound]

I have the diesel. I've had no issues at all with the engine. I test drove all the engines, the 1.2 is too gutless, the torque with the diesel is a improvement, obviously the 1.4 fell much quicker. I compromised and went for the diesel. Good fuel economy and a bit of poke, plus the cheap tax. No probs with the regenerations either. Fuel economy drops for a few miles then goes back up......although it does sound like a tractor in this cold weather when warming up.