Technical Diesel injector leak.

[McNab406]

Hi folks, I have a '55 plate 1.9 jtd with 117k on the clock. In the last few days, there has been a smell of burning diesel coming into the car, like it's dripping onto the exhaust and filtering into the cabin. It has slowly got worse and is at the 'eye stinging stage'..!
On opening the bonnet, the only visible sign of a leak is around the injector nearest the timing belt. It has a misting like there is a minor leak. Other than that, the car is running great and starts no problem.
I am wondering if it could be an injector seal and if so, am I better to make sure I have replacements first before I go near it, and will I have to depressurise the fuel system first etc?
Any help is much appreciated..cheers folks

 

[chairmannorman]

Hi, the 1st check I would make is for leaks on the return pipes. They're usually rubber and perish eventually. If you can watch it running you should be able to see it leak. ( there are some used injectors on ebay at the moment)

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

There is a small copper seal/washer between the injector and the cil. head.
If it's leaking, you can hear it, and see a lot of black, messy gunk around the leaking injector.
www.mister-auto.co.uk sells new and reconditioned (Bosch) injectors, I wouldn't buy a used one...

 

[McNab406]

Hi, thank you for the prompt replies. It does look black around the base of the injector I mentioned, like it is leaking there. I can also hear a 'phut phut'kinda sound, like it might be leaking gas from there but it is difficult to isolate it to exactly that spot, though I think it is. Does this mean the copper seal is away? And am I better to source the new seal first? Do also 'have' to change the injector too?
Thanks again..

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

If an injector is leaking, it is VERY clear to see ( and hear...!!).
If you're in doubt, go to a workshop first for a second opinion, before taking things apart that's not needed...

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

..in the meantime, look around here, a lot of info to be found about replacing that infamous copper seal...!

 

[McNab406]

Thank you, I will

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi, thank you for the prompt replies. It does look black around the base of the injector I mentioned, like it is leaking there. I can also hear a 'phut phut'kinda sound, like it might be leaking gas from there but it is difficult to isolate it to exactly that spot, though I think it is. Does this mean the copper seal is away? And am I better to source the new seal first? Do also 'have' to change the injector too?
Thanks again..

Yes you need to change the seal for a new one.
Yes you need to depressurize the fuel system.
No you don't need a new injector if it's the seal that has failed.
Good luck

 

[martyc5674]

It’s just the seal... the phut phut is the giveaway, I’ve had a few on my multipla. The earlier you tackle it the easier to get the injector out. Usually come out easy enough but can not always. The trick though is to borrow or rent a reamer to clean up the top of the head or you’ll be doing it again in a few weeks. Try rent a pullers and reamer... usually come together in s kit. The injector washer you’ll get from s diesel specialist for about 50p. Marty.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

I changed several injector copper seals in JTD engines in the past, and never used a "reamer"..and they still are tight as can be...
Trick is to use compressed air, and a LOT of carburetor (!!) spray to clean the carbon and black gunk around the injector.
When all is clean, use a good torque wrench and thighten everything according to specs....!!

 

[martyc5674]

Well I had to replace at least 2 twice each... and hadn’t held back on the cleaning and they leaked again within a few thousand miles. That was my experience. I replaced all injectors at one point (second hand for 50 quid I might add!)... borrowed a mates pullers which had a reamer... 30 seconds on each cylinder and none of them leaked again.
Marty.

 

[McNab406]

Ok..so I have changed the seal and cleaned everything!It was a mess and a total mare to get out, but was otherwise not too difficult. After replacing everything, the car ran great initially. Plenty of torque and no leaks. However, on the second day, I noticed the car is holding back..like turbo lag. There are no engine management lights showing and there is no reek from the exhaust. It also sounds totally normal. I had her up to 90 on the motorway so she's still drivable, but it feels like I have my caravan on the back!! I took the injector back out, thinking perhaps the head was blocked, and very carefully stripped the injector head out and tested it. It is atomizing just fine so have replaced it using a second new injector seal.I used FIAT parts.
Could some of the soot and carbon went into the combustion chamber and affected the EGR valve or the CAT???
Thanks again folks.

 

[McNab406]

Wen I say replacing everything, I mean replacing the injector seal after "thoroughly" cleaning everything....thanks

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Well, you can take both cat and EGR out, see if it makes any difference..

www.jtd-performance.com click on UK flag.

 

[g8rpi]

Well, you can take both cat and EGR out, see if it makes any difference..

www.jtd-performance.com click on UK flag.

Peter is proposing illegal modification again. Of course removing the catalyst and EGR valve out will make a difference, but it's not going to help with your fault finding. Just to be clear removing or disabling an emissions control device on a road vehicle is illegal,
For diagnosis I suggest you put Multiecuscan on the car. Not all errors give a warning light and you can also see what the running parameters are. A first guess is you have disturbed something, probably electrical like the MAP sensor.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

... you have disturbed something .....

Robert G8RPI.[/QUOTE

 

[McNab406]

Had a diagnostic ran by an auto electrician...zero codes!!
EGR valve?

 

[jackwhoo]

I second what Robert says about using multi ecu scan to read parameters of running engine.
But If you want to you can remove the egr valve and make sure it is closing fully. If doesn't close fully then turbo boost gets blown into and out of exhaust rather than into engine.
Most noticeable as lower power than usual until rpm exceeds 2000 to 2500 rpm. Together with black smoke from exhaust caused my ECU fueling for all the air flow read by maf but lots of that air not going into cylinders ie over fueling when turbo operating.