General Did our new car bypass quality control alltogether?

[JimR123]

I am having trouble understanding your point of view. Please indicate to me where abouts in your new car contract does it say that if there is a warranty issue that the dealer or Fiat has to supply you with an equivalent car let alone a loan car.

Contract? You mean we were supposed to receive a contract?

From http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/BuyingANewCarYourRights.html...

New cars come under the Sale of Goods Act. That means they must be "as described," "of satisfactory quality," and "fit for the purpose" - in this case, if you specify a specific need to the dealer, the car he sells you should be able to do that. If your car has a problem in the first six months, get the dealer to repair it (free of charge, of course) or replace it. Think twice before allowing a repair, since it could affect the resale value.

I don't think there's anything in there that says, "things break, learn to deal with it".

I'm pretty sure that a light saying "return me to a garage" is not "fit for purpose". According to that, we have a right to a replacement. As they can't produce an identical replacement just like that (understandably), the next best thing is to repair ours whilst providing the nearest replacement they have. Which they did after I called them and said, "surely you should be providing us with another 500?". That's all I said, and they didn't even put up a fight. Just a shame they didn't do it off their own initiative.

I really am suprised how many people think it is acceptable that they don't get a near-identical courtesy car if their new car goes wrong in the first day. Whatever happened to that british fighting spirit ("we shall fight them on the beaches", etc)?

 

[Racing Nige]

I am having trouble understanding your point of view. Please indicate to me where abouts in your new car contract does it say that if there is a warranty issue that the dealer or Fiat has to supply you with an equivalent car let alone a loan car.

I don't think the point is whether the dealer has to give you a courtesy car to comply with the warranty contract, which is really the barest minimum they have to comply with.

I think it is the dealers understanding that a car is a major purchase for people to make, and also causes inconvenience when things go wrong. So if a new car goes wrong shortly after delivery, it is good customer service to be as helpful as possible and minimise the inconvenience to the customer.

If the fault is more than a 'while-u-wait' fix, it is likely that the customer will suffer some inconvemience in transport. So to minimise the inconvenience, a courtesy car is one way of doing this. Sometimes, a customer will prefer a lift to the train station, or their car collected from home/work. I guess the best garages offer all these options - certainly IMO those that do will gain the best reputation and be more likely to get my future business.

This matter has torn me rather over the last few weeks - my Citroen has numerous faults all fixed under warranty. I am not happy that the car seems to be something of a lemon, but am considering a new Citroen because the actual dealer has been first class. If the dealer had been as rubbish as the car, then Citroen would not get a second look in for a new car.

So, in these straightened times, customer service, which may include a courtesy car, can mean the difference between a new car sale or not.

 

[MissR]

What's wrong with a Grande Punto though? it's a car, it's certainly not inferior in terms of size or engine compared to a 500.

THe 'you're lucky to get a courtesy car' comments are more to do with the attitude Jim seems to be showing towards the dealer.

He had a car and he was mobile while they were sorting the issue out

No there's nothing wrong with a Punto, it does the job whilst the 500 is being fixed.
I'd still have gone all out if I was the dealer though, nothing is better for business than recommendations.

 

[stu0710]

And how pray tell do you know that they're not doing everything that they can do to resolve the issue?

Also how can you not be the one to suffer? It's your car that's broken, it's not the dealers car, it's your car therefore you're the one who's losing out.

I like others on this thread feel you're being unreasonable and expecting a miracle.

Oh yeah it is a different kettle of fish, I agree entirely, but I can't believe all the comments on here around the theme of 'your lucky to get a courtesy car'! If I was a dealer I'd make sure I'd give them the best courtesy car from the outset along with a token of some sort to show that Fiat is a good brand and they take pride in the quality of their products. Maybe I've worked in marketing too long but as the rule is that all customers complain and only 1 in 10 talk about a good experience. If they had turned Jims bad experience around by giving him a good car first off and a token gift he'd be more likely be saying...
"Had a problem with my 500 took it back to the garage though and they've been great! Gave us their 500 as a courtesy car and even gave us a bunch of flowers/restaurant vouchers really pleased with the service aren't Fiat/Dealership brilliant, will definitely buy from them again. Go there if you're looking at buying soon"

If the dealer / Fiat were doing all in there power to keep Jim happy (like Miss R said) then presumably Jim would be on here telling us how well they were resolving his problem with the car?

Jim has a right to be p*ssed off as he has paid for a new car, waited 12 weeks for delivery and it isn't right? I can't see whar your problem with him is 306 - maybe playing devils advocate?

 

[306maxi]

I don't think the point is whether the dealer has to give you a courtesy car to comply with the warranty contract, which is really the barest minimum they have to comply with.

I think it is the dealers understanding that a car is a major purchase for people to make, and also causes inconvenience when things go wrong. So if a new car goes wrong shortly after delivery, it is good customer service to be as helpful as possible and minimise the inconvenience to the customer.

If the fault is more than a 'while-u-wait' fix, it is likely that the customer will suffer some inconvemience in transport. So to minimise the inconvenience, a courtesy car is one way of doing this. Sometimes, a customer will prefer a lift to the train station, or their car collected from home/work. I guess the best garages offer all these options - certainly IMO those that do will gain the best reputation and be more likely to get my future business.

If you look at the thread though you'll see that Jim was provided with a courtesy car.

 

[306maxi]

If the dealer / Fiat were doing all in there power to keep Jim happy (like Miss R said) then presumably Jim would be on here telling us how well they were resolving his problem with the car?

Jim has a right to be p*ssed off as he has paid for a new car, waited 12 weeks for delivery and it isn't right? I can't see whar your problem with him is 306 - maybe playing devils advocate?

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/204235-wobbly-clutch-pedal.html

See this thread to see how I don't just take the side of the dealer/Fiat

 

[MissR]

If the dealer / Fiat were doing all in there power to keep Jim happy (like Miss R said) then presumably Jim would be on here telling us how well they were resolving his problem with the car?

Jim has a right to be p*ssed off as he has paid for a new car, waited 12 weeks for delivery and it isn't right? I can't see whar your problem with him is 306 - maybe playing devils advocate?

Ah hes not that bad really

 

[JimR123]

What's wrong with a Grande Punto though? it's a car, it's certainly not inferior in terms of size or engine compared to a 500.

THe 'you're lucky to get a courtesy car' comments are more to do with the attitude Jim seems to be showing towards the dealer.

He had a car and he was mobile while they were sorting the issue out

I hope I haven't offended any Punto owners, as I don't think it's a bad car at all. In fact, we only ended up buying a 500 because I thought we should have a look at the GP, and saw the "almost within reach" prices of the 500's on the forecourt. I thought the GP was quite nice, but not quite our thing. The OH (who we were buying for) didn't like the styling of the inside at all, thought it was too, er, butch. And of course the style of the 500 won it over for us. Also, the OH, looking for only her second car, doesn't feel comfortable in the GP because it feels quite big somehow, allthough this is probably because she used to have a Matiz

She spent more than she original planned to because we both fell in love with the 500. As said before, she also had to scrap in her old car (which she was still somehow very fond of, despite numerous dangerous problems), so emotions, and expectations, have been running high.

The courtesy car was in quite a state. It only had about 2k miles on the clock, but looked like it had done 200k judging by the state of the interior. I don't think it had ever seen the business end of a hoover.

The GP was plenty nippy, with it's turbo deisel (which was annoying at first), but this was a bit irrelevant as the OH wasn't confident driving it, and the 500 is her car, so this made it a big issue as she had no car that she could drive confidently.

 

[eki]

New cars come under the Sale of Goods Act. That means they must be "as described," "of satisfactory quality," and "fit for the purpose"

In Australia, we have similar laws. I am not saying that you're not entitled to a replacement car if there is an issue with yours.

I don't think there's anything in there that says, "things break, learn to deal with it".

This is not what I'm saying.

As they can't produce an identical replacement just like that (understandably), the next best thing is to repair ours whilst providing the nearest replacement they have. Which they did after I called them and said, "surely you should be providing us with another 500?".

A courtesy car is not a replacement car. Depending on the fault, the dealer in conjunction with Fiat will decide if it is viable to repair or replace, bearing in mind that they have to be reasonable as well as the customer having to be reasonable. A customer cannot demand a new car for a fault that can be repaired without changing the character of the car.

I really am suprised how many people think it is acceptable that they don't get a near-identical courtesy car if their new car goes wrong in the first day.

What has happened here is that the dealer and Fiat have decided to repair your new car. Meanwhile, to keep you mobile (like 306maxi said) they have provided you with a courtesy car which they're not obliged to do, but in good will have done so. What most are complaining about is the fact that you see the provision of a courtesy car as mandatory, but not only mandatory, but to your liking. I would be all for your position IF Fiat promised you a "replacement" car and did not provide you with an equivalent. But what we're talking about here is a "courtesy" car.

It is good practice to provide a courtesy car to customers. Like MissR said, for every "good thing" a customer says to his peers, he will say 7 bad (I believe these are the statistics in Australia). It is very difficult for a dealer to get good publicity. If they're able to provide you with an equivalent or new car, the better it looks for them. However, courtesy cars are often not paid for by the car brand, rather are provided at the expense of the dealership. I'm sure if they were able to provide you with a Fiat 500 from the beginning they would've. The fact that you received a demo means they're willing to void possible sales due to the loss of the demo and foot a lower resale value of the demo. I hope you see my viewpoint on this. I am not trying to criticise you, but trying to help you understand the other possible angle.

 

[JimR123]

Oh yeah it is a different kettle of fish, I agree entirely, but I can't believe all the comments on here around the theme of 'your lucky to get a courtesy car'! If I was a dealer I'd make sure I'd give them the best courtesy car from the outset along with a token of some sort to show that Fiat is a good brand and they take pride in the quality of their products. Maybe I've worked in marketing too long but as the rule is that all customers complain and only 1 in 10 talk about a good experience. If they had turned Jims bad experience around by giving him a good car first off and a token gift he'd be more likely be saying...
"Had a problem with my 500 took it back to the garage though and they've been great! Gave us their 500 as a courtesy car and even gave us a bunch of flowers/restaurant vouchers really pleased with the service aren't Fiat/Dealership brilliant, will definitely buy from them again. Go there if you're looking at buying soon"

Exactly! Maybe you should start up a dealership!

TBH, I don't have an issue with the dealer, except for the fact that it didn't occur to anybody there that they ought to give us the replacement 500 in the first place.

It seems that people responding on this thread are defending the dealer, and they really don't need to do that.

 

[Ulpian]

The GP was plenty nippy, with it's turbo deisel (which was annoying at first), but this was a bit irrelevant as the OH wasn't confident driving it, and the 500 is her car, so this made it a big issue as she had no car that she could drive confidently.

My italics.

Everything seems to be annoying, regardless.

And this is what happens to loan cars, they get trashed by customers who expect everything but give nothing back but moans.
You should be pleased to have a loan car, whatever it is. And if the OH was not confident driving it; why not? Take her out for a few minutes to get her used to it.

A car is not a computer, which is a very personal device, usually with private information on it, and cannot therefore easily be substituted by a temporary replacement.

The car dealer is in law permitted three attempts to fix any problem before the customer is in a position to even think about demanding a replacement.

As for flowers? Oh for heaven's sake, get a life, nobody's died.

 

[MissR]

Lol well never want to hear a complaint off you then!

 

[Ulpian]

Oh, you will, but it'll be legitimate, and I'm a reasonable person

 

[JimR123]

Why are still people still going on about the courtesy car thing? I thought we'd got past that. I know I have...

 

[306maxi]

Why are still people still going on about the courtesy car thing? I thought we'd got past that. I know I have...

You were still going on about it a few posts above and referring to is as a replacement car which it most certainly isn't......

I really don't understand why this is such a big thing for you, your car has a fault and the dealer is working to fix it and at no point have you been without a car at all. What else is there that they can do?

I had the annoyance of not having a car at all when my car took its sweet time to get to the dealers. Now think of how annoying it was for my wife having to walk to work or take the bus when she knew our 500 was in a transport yard somewhere when it really should have been with the dealer, then think of how lucky you were to have a courtesy car in which to drive around in.

 

[keeforelli]

Was it the "generic failure" and "ss deactivated" lights that came on for you?

Any idea what was done to fix it? And please do let us know if it continues to stay fixed!...

hi jimr123

well, they didn't fix it as no faults registered on diagnostic apparently.- the SS warning light with the same colored ! (exclamation mark) comes on intermittently, and without fail when starting up from cold then engaging reverse. dont remember seeing 'generic failure' but the S warning light is accompanied by 'stop start unavailable'

i will have a proper look when it does i again.

The only way to re engage it is to turn off the ignition and restart, sometimes twice!!!

They have now put in a call to fiat in italy for advice- i also have a creaky throttle pedal/cable which they couldnt fix so need to replace- they have no other stop start to compare it with to see if its 'normal' so they are looking to see if there is a link between the two faults- italy also have to authorise a replacement throttle cable.

however since picking the car up today the light hasnt come on-

when i go to work in the morning i reverse off the drive- as i will be tomorow- if it doesnt do it i'll be suprised.

so yeah, no joy!!...what have you been told about your fault?

and what characteristics does it have?

 

[keeforelli]

Another update on the problem, in case anybody here is actually interested in 500's, rather than just having a go at somebody...

It seems that the warning light only (so far) comes on when the car is "cold" (not been used for a while, rather than chilly), and we reverse it off the driveway.

If we keep the engine running for, say, 2 minutes, and then turn it off and on again, the lights go off (perhaps this is why it's called a stop and start? ).

We started to think that perhaps it was just that the manual was wrong, and that when the car is in "I'm not going to auto-stop because I'm not ready" mode, the "generic warning" and "ss deactivated" warning lights came on instead of just the other "ss" light, as documented in the manual.

However, we've had the lights come on, and then continued to drive for about 30mins without the lights going off again. Once we stopped the engine after that, and restarted, the lights stayed off. ...until it had been left unused for a long period of time again.

SPOOKY!!!!!!!!!!!

just read this!!...thats exactly the same scenario as mine!...it MUST be a common fault/system bug.

thought i was reading my own post there for a minute!

 

[JimR123]

You were still going on about it a few posts above and referring to is as a replacement car which it most certainly isn't......

I believe I was "going on about it" in response to another post. As I no longer have any issue with courtesy cars (due to friendly dealer providing much nicer courtesy car, as previously stated), I shall stop going on about it from now on.

 

[llydaw]

This is my first post and not a happy one either.

I collected my lovely 1.2 start stop week last Friday. In less than 24hrs I also had the warning light on my dash and the start stop sign showing as not available. I switched off the engine twice for it to go. However I've also found when I'm in traffic and driving slowly and using the start stop function this light comes on and start stop isn't then available. I've also had a problem when I've been stopped at lights and start stop is "working". I've put the car into 1st and gone to accelarate and the car won't start, this has happened frequently over the past week. I've had to attempt to put the car into 1st 3 times for it to move and it did on the 4th attempt. Not good when your at lights with a row of cars behind you.

I've phoned the garage and they've suggested I take it in for someone to talk me through how to used the start stop as they aren't familiar with it either. Having read similar problems on here I'm glad it's not me. However I am concerned that they have no idea what to do about it. Has anyone managed to fix their problems yet and if so what did the garage do?

sorry for long post, I am hoping and will be most grateful for any advice.

 

[JimR123]

This is my first post and not a happy one either.

I collected my lovely 1.2 start stop week last Friday. In less than 24hrs I also had the warning light on my dash and the start stop sign showing as not available. I switched off the engine twice for it to go. However I've also found when I'm in traffic and driving slowly and using the start stop function this light comes on and start stop isn't then available. I've also had a problem when I've been stopped at lights and start stop is "working". I've put the car into 1st and gone to accelarate and the car won't start, this has happened frequently over the past week. I've had to attempt to put the car into 1st 3 times for it to move and it did on the 4th attempt. Not good when your at lights with a row of cars behind you.

I've phoned the garage and they've suggested I take it in for someone to talk me through how to used the start stop as they aren't familiar with it either. Having read similar problems on here I'm glad it's not me. However I am concerned that they have no idea what to do about it. Has anyone managed to fix their problems yet and if so what did the garage do?

sorry for long post, I am hoping and will be most grateful for any advice.

We've not yet had any problems with the car restarting when at the lights, yet...

Not that I'm suggesting that you have to settle for this, but do you know that you can disable the start/stop bit when you start up?