Technical Did I break my EGR valve?

[lilliehorn]

I cleaned out the EGR valve of my 2.4 JTDM during the weekend due to the "insufficient flow" error code. It was really needed after more than 40.000 miles of operation. I also cleaned the MAP sensor according to the excellent instruction by Halilson. I refitted everything complete with a new bullet blanking plate as instructed. Afterwards the car runs almost in limp mode, no power at all below 3000 rpm's. No error codes are recorded. When I try to execute the "EGR valve solenoid test" with Multiecuscan I cannot hear anything from the valve. What has happened? Does a non working EGR valve make the care loose almost all power below 3000 rpm's? Or did I break the MAP sensor cleaning it? Doesn't that generate an error code? Please help .

 

[uktrucker]

Hi did you clean out erg solenoide side as well, as I had problem with my erg valve,

https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=331720

However once split from valve 4, small Allen bolts, and cleaned try actuating it again with the multiscan and see if little plunger is working as it may be that your solenoide has failed,

As I found a sticking / faulty erg would cause the limp mode feeling below 3000 rpm. And yes if map is faulty it should bring up code. Best guess is that erg is faulty but as I said it might be the crud behind the valve between solenoide

 

[lilliehorn]

Hi! I did disconnect the solenoid and cleaned it out also. Tried to push the valve manually by hand and it worked OK. Definately not stuck. As I understand it the valve is closed when not operated and if it doesn´t work that would be the same as blanking it off? Am I wrong?

 

[uktrucker]

Not sure on that one but I think so, but if you can remove the small pipe from end of valve to top of engine and try the valve actuating using software you should be able to see valve opening / closing, if not valve / solenoid is US, but not sure if the ecu gets return signal from solenoid. But defiantly sounds like erg valve issues. When I disconnected Maf valve it ran a lot better but little low on power but did not go into limp
Mode below 3000 rpm, so thought it was that so replaced, but with help from the forum found it to be the valve sounds exactly like same symptoms I suffered so I would say its the valve causing you these problems

 

[s130]

When I removed and cleaned my EGR valve (for storage / later use as I fitted a new EGR valve) I remember connecting the solenoid to a battery directly to test it's operation.

Please NOTE! check polarity before testing.

 

[lilliehorn]

Thanks, I will try manually operating the solenoid with a battery but how can I check the polarity?

 

[s130]

Zimples.

Take the connector off. With a multimeter/ohm meter buz / test each socket terminal with respect to the battery negative terminal/chassis. The one that show a very low resitance is the -ve terminal. Not match this terminal up with the matching pin on on the EGR valve.

If you can't do this then post back and I'll find the wiring diagrams and tell you the wire colours.

 

[uktrucker]

Try this link for ebay part

http://bit.ly/15yo8gu

Just in case

 

[lilliehorn]

I don´t have a multimeter and I have not had the time to remove the solenoid again yet, but I did some more tests with multiecuscan today. I connected to the ECU while idling and checked the two EGR valve parameters on the parameters tab. It showed that the EGR control was ON fore a short while and, when pushing the throttle, EGR valve opening percentage was at most 12% very shortly. Most of the time it was 3.998% . Actutators tab EGR solenoid valve activation still does not do anything. I did not drive the car, just idling and revving the engine. Does that prove that the EGR valve is not broken and in fact operational? If so, what else can be wrong?

 

[lilliehorn]

Try this link for ebay part

http://bit.ly/15yo8gu

Just in case

I was planning to by this one as I think the 8v version of the EGR valve will not fit my car: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350859482927?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2661

 

[lilliehorn]

Today I drove the car a couple of miles while having the laptop connected to the OBD port, checking the two EGR parameters all the time with multiecuscan (Well, passenger checking). EGR is almost never avtivated, but for a short while it does activate and show a 10 % opening. Problem is I don't know what it should look like. Anyway, I will order a new EGR valve and a new cheap MAP sensor and just go for a trial and error approach.

 

[lilliehorn]

I received the new noname cheap MAP sensor from Auto-sensors today and fitted it to my car right away. I then noticed error code P0235 boost pressure sensor and P0095 air temperature sensor inside supercharger sensor. Fatal light on. These codes cannot be cleared. Hence the sensor is a DOA. Problem is exactly the same driving with this faulty sensor. Does that mean that My original Bosch sensor is bad or OK? No error codes When connected.

 

[s130]

Well as you have MultiECUScan you could try this.

Put the Bosch sensor back in and reset the error codes.
Run the engine.
No look at the "Boost Pressure" parameter with MultiECUScan. Run a plot/graph and do some engine revving. Also so real load road testing. You should see a varying value/signal consistent with the other boost value AND the throttle pedal position.

If all look OK then your sensor is OK.

Another point. The EGR circuit flow is not directly measure. When you see with MultiECUScan and EGR percentage then I'm fairly sure this shows the demanded EGR% and NOT the actual EGR. The ECU calculates actual approximate EGR by flow by a complex calculation based on an expected % drop in measured air intake flow. This calculation is done over a period of time which is why one can blank the EGR off and it takes a while for the ECU to throw an error.

So in your case if the EGR light is coming on then regardless of the EGR figure/reading from MultiECUScan then the engine has calculated that the expected change in air flow is not as expected taking into account demanded EGR.

 

[lilliehorn]

Fitted My New Pierburg EGR valve today and the car runs fine again! Bought it for 70 pounds! Question is now; what did I do wrong cleaning it and how can I avoid breaking the New one next time?