Technical Crankcase breather 2.5td differences

[Scuby]

I have a 2.5 TD that I recently fitted as a replacement for an 89 that threw a rod.

The replacement engine came complete and looks to be a 91 or 92 the Old engine is an 89 or 88. I notice they have different breather systems.

both use the metal flame trap, however the old engine simply has one hose that vents to atmosphere , the new engine has a hose coming from the top of the auxiliary housing to the flame trap and then the flame trap has a hose coming from it to...? Is that meant to vent to atmosphere or is that meant to go back into the oil pan like I've seen on diagrams for the 2.8 and later 2.5. In other words should I replicate the old setup as I now have excessive pressurized smoke billowing out of the flame trap.

Odds are the engine is extremely worn out however it's also possible that the rings are sticking as I'm assuming based on other factors this engine was dormant for a long period of time, I've oiled a dead cylinder and it did start to pick up and ran a lot better. I still have hope. I can get this engine to run decently and send my friend down the road with some confidence.

Last but not least assuming this crankcase ventilation systems differing isn't an issue could I route the hose that would vent to atmosphere inline to the inlet of the turbo after the filter without issue or would that risk causing a runaway?

 

[bugsymike]

I have a 2.5 TD that I recently fitted as a replacement for an 89 that threw a rod.

The replacement engine came complete and looks to be a 91 or 92 the Old engine is an 89 or 88. I notice they have different breather systems.

both use the metal flame trap, however the old engine simply has one hose that vents to atmosphere , the new engine has a hose coming from the top of the auxiliary housing to the flame trap and then the flame trap has a hose coming from it to...? Is that meant to vent to atmosphere or is that meant to go back into the oil pan like I've seen on diagrams for the 2.8 and later 2.5. In other words should I replicate the old setup as I now have excessive pressurized smoke billowing out of the flame trap.

Odds are the engine is extremely worn out however it's also possible that the rings are sticking as I'm assuming based on other factors this engine was dormant for a long period of time, I've oiled a dead cylinder and it did start to pick up and ran a lot better. I still have hope. I can get this engine to run decently and send my friend down the road with some confidence.

Last but not least assuming this crankcase ventilation systems differing isn't an issue could I route the hose that would vent to atmosphere inline to the inlet of the turbo after the filter without issue or would that risk causing a runaway?

As you will know in the old days all vehicles simple vented the crankcase via a pipe down the side of the engine to the atmosphere. I recall it was common to see vehicles with more smoke blowing down the side of the engine than out the exhaust pipe. From memory later the answer was into the air cleaner and worn engines would clog the air filter element. On the one you have fitted I assume that pipe at top of breather is the smaller diameter one which goes to the unit at front of engine that mounts the injector pump etc. This pipe will allow any oil to drain back down into the sump via that housing so no danger of it causing "runaway", if you had the rest of the air cleaner side from that engine you would probably see a fitting to return the larger pipe via the air filter inlet pipe, similar to this plastic version which I have seen on late 1990s 2.8s although this engine below advertised on eBay claims to be a 2.5.
Personally I think I would leave the smaller pipe returning to that housing on top of injector pump mounting and leave the large pipe breathing down the side of the engine to the atmoshere as per original engine which presumably only had to comply with regulations for that age of vehicle. This way there would be no chance of worn engine pushing oil into inlet manifold to cause "runaway" something I have only seen once and on a badly neglected vehicle.
I suspect from what you are saying about the oil pressurising from that large pipe that the safest option would be to run it down the side of the engine to atmosphere as per original. Some people use a form of catch tank open to the atmosphere to collect any excess oil that comes out with the fumes. Clearly this replacement engine is quite worn anyway.
In the past I did a fair bit of work on the same engines in Iveco Daily's (they are slightly different as bottom end is set up for rear wheel drive mounting so they are not a direct swap)
My first one was a 96 indirect injection 2.5 non turbo which also had that metal canistor breather design, even by 1997 they used the plastic breather on the 2.8 direct injection turbo versions etc. It may be useful to get the engine series number from the engine it's self. There are many different variations. The engine below was a 1997 Fiat Ducato 2.8 Direct Injection 122hp from a Fiat Ducato Maxi van that I fitted in to my boat, you may be able to see the smaller pipe going to that housing we described and from memory on this one the larger pipe went into the air fliter assembly, however there was no piston blow by on this engine as I had completely rebuilt it and tweaked the turbo and injection pump to almost match the 150hp petrol engine it replaced.

 

[Scuby]

Thanks for your input.

The blowby is so bad that it billows more. Than the exhaust and when I apply throttle it starts spray oil. I've never dealt with sucj a worn engine it's cri. I Al this was sold by the wreckers. I believe the engine must have laid outside on a pile for years before being sold. Rings are stuck and I have a perhaps, especially after 25 years of wrenching on mostly petrol powered lumps, an unrealistic hopenit will "come around * after a few heat cycles. But as is I simply can't even run it down the road.

Last attempt. At dalvaging it might be to pull all four injectors. Fill with atf/acetone mix and let it sit. Hope the rust and carbon dissolves. Remove fluids and fire it up.

Good to know the hose from the breather to the housing can be left as it isn't making the high pressure situation any worse.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for your input.

The blowby is so bad that it billows more. Than the exhaust and when I apply throttle it starts spray oil. I've never dealt with sucj a worn engine it's cri. I Al this was sold by the wreckers. I believe the engine must have laid outside on a pile for years before being sold. Rings are stuck and I have a perhaps, especially after 25 years of wrenching on mostly petrol powered lumps, an unrealistic hopenit will "come around * after a few heat cycles. But as is I simply can't even run it down the road.

Last attempt. At dalvaging it might be to pull all four injectors. Fill with atf/acetone mix and let it sit. Hope the rust and carbon dissolves. Remove fluids and fire it up.

Good to know the hose from the breather to the housing can be left as it isn't making the high pressure situation any worse.

Very rare to get a good engine from scrapyard these days. I suppose lucky to even find one of those as pretty rare now.
A lot of work, but I usually prefer to rebuild if possible, often if engine hasn't got a con rod through the side it is a case of hone the bores, new carefully gapped piston rings, a set of gaskets and a set of bearing shells if lucky on those engines plus of course lap valves in.
Generally I have found even with pistons in my hand nearly impossible to free off seized/carboned up rings, so I wouldn't hold much hope.
Only suggestion is maybe with engine warmed up set revs about 1500 and pour a little at a time Redex type upper cylinder lubricant in inlet manifold and see if it improves over an hour.
Note on those Sofim engines if cam belt breaks and bends the valves it also bends the conrod on that cylinder by a couple of mm, so will never run right if just new belt and valves.
They usually only break if cambelt fails or someone has over revved them by bad driving or messed around with diesel pump max. stop.
The power increase I got with mine was all to a max. of 3690rpm as shown below, the other figure on instrument was injection advance at those revs, so turbo increase and fuel increase a bit at a time to get that power without any black smoke and 26 knots speed against original using over twice as much fuel to get 30 knots when it was brand new.

 

[bugsymike]

Only suggestion is maybe with engine warmed up set revs about 1500 and pour a little at a time Redex type upper cylinder lubricant in inlet manifold and see if it improves over an hour.