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Currently reading:
Constructive Debate Regarding...Headlights/Foglights
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Wimmy
Guest
With you on that Mark!
Andy - I dont need to leave my rear fogs on to feel popular - everyone treats me like a god anyway
. I'm just more forgiving on drivers genuine mistakes than those with no consideration for others around them.
I think there may also be a subtle difference between someone forgetting to turn their rear fogs of and forgetting to stop at a red light. If you think they are in anyway similar I suggest you take your keys back to your local fiat dealer and explain you are not qualified to own one. They may also send your licence back to Swansea for you too if you ask nicely.
Andy - I dont need to leave my rear fogs on to feel popular - everyone treats me like a god anyway
. I'm just more forgiving on drivers genuine mistakes than those with no consideration for others around them.I think there may also be a subtle difference between someone forgetting to turn their rear fogs of and forgetting to stop at a red light. If you think they are in anyway similar I suggest you take your keys back to your local fiat dealer and explain you are not qualified to own one. They may also send your licence back to Swansea for you too if you ask nicely.
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Andy
Guest
Whimmy, i think ive been driving 18 years too long now. Just a general observationalist.
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Dom
Guest
Rear tints....hmmmm....nope
Oh crap, I also nearly always use my footbrake at traffic lights. I always thought I was a particularly conscientious driver but that is proving to be a fantasy!
Oh crap, I also nearly always use my footbrake at traffic lights. I always thought I was a particularly conscientious driver but that is proving to be a fantasy!
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Sabre 23
Guest
@ Rob: Yes, it is!
Mark.
Council estate lad.
And proud of it!
A battle of wits with the unarmed is no fun!
Member of the Guild of Experienced Motorists.
Mark.
Council estate lad.
And proud of it!
A battle of wits with the unarmed is no fun!
Member of the Guild of Experienced Motorists.
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Kate
Guest
Fog lights should only be used when foggy or, as far as im concerned, if you have a front bulb gone. For instance, driving home from work one dark night, i had a headlight bulb blow for some reason or other, and so i turned my front fogs on to allow me to actually see the edge of the road so I didnt drive into one of the lovely big ditches these Lincolnshire people love to put right by the side of the road so much
To me, that is the only reason you should have fogs on if its not foggy.
To me, that is the only reason you should have fogs on if its not foggy.
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g5een
Guest
do front fog lights on modern cars do anythin anyway? i can't see any difference with them on in good weather or bad weather.
they light up the hedges a bit more while going down narrow lanes, which is great for spotting wildlife not so good for driving though.
they light up the hedges a bit more while going down narrow lanes, which is great for spotting wildlife not so good for driving though.
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Buzz
Guest
Mark, you beat me to it. fools who sit with their foot on the brake at night should me made to stare at the full beam of he car behind. They'd soon remember the proper procedure for traffic lights, and start using their damned handbrakes.
Man, if the country was full of drivers as good as me, wow, it'd be a riot come to think of it...lol
Buzz
The champion of the Bravo 1.4
& now ex owner of a Bravo 1.8
Man, if the country was full of drivers as good as me, wow, it'd be a riot come to think of it...lol
Buzz
The champion of the Bravo 1.4
& now ex owner of a Bravo 1.8
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Roberto
Guest
To my knowledge, they are designed to illuminate the road surface and edges and to ensure other road users can see you.
When you think about it, fog is moisture and when you shine a light on it, the moisture just acts as millions of tiny reflectors and refractors, so the more light you shine on it, the more light it reflects back at you and the less you can see through it. Next time you're in fog, and it is safe to do so, pop your full beam on and see how much worse your visibility becomes.
The other problem is that with the rear fog lamps, they are red, and red is a highly unstable colour. When the red light shines through the dense, moist air, the red light scatters even more and becomes less visible. The brighter red light of a fog lamp only fares slightly better than normal ones, but it is enough to hopefully make a difference.
Suffice to say, when visibility is greatly reduced by fog or dense water spray, fog lights will have some benefit but they are useless unless the driver adjusts his or her driving technique to suit the conditions, I.E. slow down, brake earlier and if necessary, stop their journey until it is safe to carry on.
Rob
Mk.2 Marea Weekend 1.8 16v 115 ELX - Bigger IS better !
When you think about it, fog is moisture and when you shine a light on it, the moisture just acts as millions of tiny reflectors and refractors, so the more light you shine on it, the more light it reflects back at you and the less you can see through it. Next time you're in fog, and it is safe to do so, pop your full beam on and see how much worse your visibility becomes.
The other problem is that with the rear fog lamps, they are red, and red is a highly unstable colour. When the red light shines through the dense, moist air, the red light scatters even more and becomes less visible. The brighter red light of a fog lamp only fares slightly better than normal ones, but it is enough to hopefully make a difference.
Suffice to say, when visibility is greatly reduced by fog or dense water spray, fog lights will have some benefit but they are useless unless the driver adjusts his or her driving technique to suit the conditions, I.E. slow down, brake earlier and if necessary, stop their journey until it is safe to carry on.
Rob
Mk.2 Marea Weekend 1.8 16v 115 ELX - Bigger IS better !
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Phill
Guest
i can understand why some people do it. If my first car had fogs on, I probably would of drove about with them on myself. As it honestly does look better from a styling point of view.
However, after only a couple of years experience driving, I feel I've grown up alot. I now think driving with fogs on when its not foggy is pointless, and I find myself screaming 'Chav' to myself each time I see someone doing it..
@Shaunco - knew I recognized your nickname from somewhere. I'm on coupeclub too - rarely post though.
@seb - whats with the random OBSESSION of posting stupid pictures. First time was funny, but Christ give it a rest now mate.
However, after only a couple of years experience driving, I feel I've grown up alot. I now think driving with fogs on when its not foggy is pointless, and I find myself screaming 'Chav' to myself each time I see someone doing it..
@Shaunco - knew I recognized your nickname from somewhere.
I'm on coupeclub too - rarely post though. @seb - whats with the random OBSESSION of posting stupid pictures. First time was funny, but Christ give it a rest now mate.
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Insomnia
Guest
"....bright as silly HID upgrades...."
What is silly about them?
As long as they are correctly aligned and in a poly-eliptical unit they should be fine. If it bothers you being in front of a car with HIDs, flip your mirror to the dazzle position. No great shakes.
Since having HIDs in both my Brava and Bravo I wouldn't have a normal halogen bulb if you paid me. I'd rather see where I'm going ta.
The Brava recently passed an MOT with the HIDs in without any grumbles so I'm satisfied that they are pointing in the right places.
Recently purchased a set of HIDs for the coop as well.
With regards to fog lights - thats what they are there for.... lights for when its foggy. If I ever spot a car with fogs on, I make sure he/she gets an eyeful of full beam. Only seems fair. Fogs are dazzling (as its another set of lights producing light to stare at regardless of their alignment or position).
Brava: Mar 99 1.9TD / 48,500 miles
Coupe: Feb 97 20V N/A / 131,000 miles
What is silly about them?
As long as they are correctly aligned and in a poly-eliptical unit they should be fine. If it bothers you being in front of a car with HIDs, flip your mirror to the dazzle position. No great shakes.
Since having HIDs in both my Brava and Bravo I wouldn't have a normal halogen bulb if you paid me. I'd rather see where I'm going ta.
The Brava recently passed an MOT with the HIDs in without any grumbles so I'm satisfied that they are pointing in the right places.
Recently purchased a set of HIDs for the coop as well.
With regards to fog lights - thats what they are there for.... lights for when its foggy. If I ever spot a car with fogs on, I make sure he/she gets an eyeful of full beam. Only seems fair. Fogs are dazzling (as its another set of lights producing light to stare at regardless of their alignment or position).
Brava: Mar 99 1.9TD / 48,500 miles
Coupe: Feb 97 20V N/A / 131,000 miles
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jayf
Guest
i personaly like fog lights they are a styling option aswell as safteyoption, although i dont have them i do like them, people say fog lights arnt for style when in my opinion i think they are just ask people have spoilers for style were as they are usedfor aerodynamic reasons but still 3/4 people have them on there car purley becose they look good just like fog light..
thats my opinion anyways (~not fact but opinion) cheers
thats my opinion anyways (~not fact but opinion) cheers
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Anonymous
Guest
The thing is that design and permitted use of fog lights have changed. Foglights used to be bolt on extras "Iodine" and fog penetrating lights that went striaght out in front with their beams. They were a bit of a gimmick as they never penetrated the fog (what can?) and were very dazzling.
Front fogs fitted to new cars face down and to the sides to light up the kerb on the left and the cats eyes on the right. You couldn't dazzle anyone if you tried and you'd find it bloody difficult to drive in a dark area with just sidelights and front fogs as they point down and to the sides. Look at the symbol for front fogs, it's a light facing down
They're for use whenever visibility is seriously reduced and not just fog. I use them on pitch single track roads and they're brlliant for lighting up the sides for ditches and grass. Visiblity is seriously reduced, so i use them
Stand in front of a modern car with just its front fog lights on and you'll see that the beam doesn't face forward.
Regs state lights shouldn't be used if they will cause dazzle. You just cant dazzle anyone apart from hedgehogs with modern car front fog lights but you could with the old ones
Times move on and designs change
Front fogs fitted to new cars face down and to the sides to light up the kerb on the left and the cats eyes on the right. You couldn't dazzle anyone if you tried and you'd find it bloody difficult to drive in a dark area with just sidelights and front fogs as they point down and to the sides. Look at the symbol for front fogs, it's a light facing down
They're for use whenever visibility is seriously reduced and not just fog. I use them on pitch single track roads and they're brlliant for lighting up the sides for ditches and grass. Visiblity is seriously reduced, so i use them
Stand in front of a modern car with just its front fog lights on and you'll see that the beam doesn't face forward.
Regs state lights shouldn't be used if they will cause dazzle. You just cant dazzle anyone apart from hedgehogs with modern car front fog lights but you could with the old ones
Times move on and designs change
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Roberto
Guest
And this is where the confusion starts. Fog lights are not styling options, they are a safety device. However, Driving lights are a styling option. And there is a distinct difference between the two.
The angles, directions and bulbs are totally different. Fog lamps are brighter and angled as such to illuminate the road surface and verges as well as make you more visible to other road users.
Driving lamps are essentially extra headlamps with the same bulbs, angles and directions as your regular headlamps and must comply with the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989. Their use was very popular in the 70's and 80's where it was common to see road going vehicles like the Cortina or Avenger with half a dozen driving lamps across the front grille !
Their main use, however, was/is on off road vehicles such as Land Rovers and rally cars, where night time illumination was important in carrying out the respective duties of that vehicle. When fitted to road going vehicles, they must comply with the above regulations and only ever used as such.
To claim that fog lamps are a style accessory is wrong and to use them as such is a dangerous road hazard, which is why it is against the law to use them other than in the prescribed manner.
Rob
Mk.2 Marea Weekend 1.8 16v 115 ELX - Bigger IS better !
The angles, directions and bulbs are totally different. Fog lamps are brighter and angled as such to illuminate the road surface and verges as well as make you more visible to other road users.
Driving lamps are essentially extra headlamps with the same bulbs, angles and directions as your regular headlamps and must comply with the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989. Their use was very popular in the 70's and 80's where it was common to see road going vehicles like the Cortina or Avenger with half a dozen driving lamps across the front grille !
Their main use, however, was/is on off road vehicles such as Land Rovers and rally cars, where night time illumination was important in carrying out the respective duties of that vehicle. When fitted to road going vehicles, they must comply with the above regulations and only ever used as such.
To claim that fog lamps are a style accessory is wrong and to use them as such is a dangerous road hazard, which is why it is against the law to use them other than in the prescribed manner.
Rob
Mk.2 Marea Weekend 1.8 16v 115 ELX - Bigger IS better !
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Matthew_NZ
Guest
Those who deplore people who drive with their fog lights on, are you the same people who would never consider using their headlights during the day?
In Canada all cars are wired so headlights come on automatically, as is the law, and as a result road accidents have almost halved.
I am a fog-light driver I'm afraid. I see the safety benefit of having lights on at all times, using my discretion on particularly bright days. I have never been blinded by fog lights, however our country roads aren't as narrow as many of yours in Britain.
Yes there is that styling element, however even when driving my work FIAT Ducato I have the headlights on. People think I'm strange but that is the mentality of many NZ drivers, most wouldn't even consider putting on their lights in torrential rain! It's totally ignorant and a real bug bear of mine.
You are welcome to use the glasshouse analogy if you wish, but it's a thought out choice I make and as far as I'm aware, isn't illegal in NZ. That may warrant further investigation.
Don't get me started on people who insist their wipers be on full speed even when its only spitting though!
In Canada all cars are wired so headlights come on automatically, as is the law, and as a result road accidents have almost halved.
I am a fog-light driver I'm afraid. I see the safety benefit of having lights on at all times, using my discretion on particularly bright days. I have never been blinded by fog lights, however our country roads aren't as narrow as many of yours in Britain.
Yes there is that styling element, however even when driving my work FIAT Ducato I have the headlights on. People think I'm strange but that is the mentality of many NZ drivers, most wouldn't even consider putting on their lights in torrential rain! It's totally ignorant and a real bug bear of mine.
You are welcome to use the glasshouse analogy if you wish, but it's a thought out choice I make and as far as I'm aware, isn't illegal in NZ. That may warrant further investigation.
Don't get me started on people who insist their wipers be on full speed even when its only spitting though!
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g5een
Guest
"They're for use whenever visibility is seriously reduced and not just fog. I use them on pitch single track roads and they're brlliant for lighting up the sides for ditches and grass. Visiblity is seriously reduced, so i use them"
not sure what you gain from seeing the ditches at the side of you other than they help spot any badgers or other wildlife that may run into the road, which can cause damage. even so thats only when going down a very narrow lane.
Having them on through town or sat on the local 'cinie carp park is just a waste of good bulbs.
not sure what you gain from seeing the ditches at the side of you other than they help spot any badgers or other wildlife that may run into the road, which can cause damage. even so thats only when going down a very narrow lane.
Having them on through town or sat on the local 'cinie carp park is just a waste of good bulbs.
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james
Guest
The way i see it is that if they were meant to be on all the time then why is there a switch?