the contract I have with the dealer and I guess it's fairly standard does say that if after 21 days from the time they stated on the order form the car isn't there, I can make time of the essence effectively cancelling the contract and any deposit is refunded but without interest. It also states no compensation will be paid. Whilst on the front of the order form it does say my deposit is non refundable I take that to mean in the event I change my mind, if they don't deliver in a reasonable time then that's another matter.
General Compensation
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General Compensation
Alan, you've just summed it up very well!
And this is the standard contract form. You cancel before due time and lose your deposit: they fail to deliver by due time and you can get your deposit back.
I was confused by the idea of compensation. For what exactly? It's annoying not getting what you want when you want it, but if you continue you can probably negotiate some free servicing and/or extras for goodwill sake. Other than not having a car, and perhaps you sold your own one too soon, I can't see a great problem.
This is the price to be paid for buying a fashionable car. I'm sure you'd have to wait for a really special handbag too, and probably pay a lot more than for a 500. Looked at like that it's not so bad
I was confused by the idea of compensation. For what exactly? It's annoying not getting what you want when you want it, but if you continue you can probably negotiate some free servicing and/or extras for goodwill sake. Other than not having a car, and perhaps you sold your own one too soon, I can't see a great problem.
This is the price to be paid for buying a fashionable car. I'm sure you'd have to wait for a really special handbag too, and probably pay a lot more than for a 500. Looked at like that it's not so bad
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Pondering on this overnight (sad I know) and have changed my mind. It really comes down to whether the delivery time is a CONDITION of the contract, or a WARANTEE. Here's the difference:
The difference between warranties and conditions of contract is that an innocent party is only entitled to sue the party in breach of a warranty, for damages for the breach of warranty. On the other hand, where a party is in breach of a condition contract, the innocent party may elect to 1. accept the breach and sue for damages, or in the alternative 2. terminate the contract (for the other party's repudiation of the contract) and sue for damages. Prior to purporting to terminate a contract however, the innocent party must not have accepted the breach by conduct or words. Also, stipulations in contracts may be conditions of the contract although they are named as warranties in the agreement.
Realising this, it does seem highly likely that it is only a warantee. If that were the case then actually you might be able to sue for damages (compensation), something like depreciation suffered on your old car in the interim period. BUT, it is pretty evident that the used market is rising (fast) so that amount would likely be immaterial. Secondly the incumbent car would normally have been part of the deal as a trade-in at an agreed pricing, meaning the loss would be £Nil.
So in this case it does seem that the OP has taken a risk - electing to sell a car privately and before delivery, presumably to "make a quick buck" - and is now stuck. Which, looked at like that, unfortunately leaves little sympathy.
Sorry!
The difference between warranties and conditions of contract is that an innocent party is only entitled to sue the party in breach of a warranty, for damages for the breach of warranty. On the other hand, where a party is in breach of a condition contract, the innocent party may elect to 1. accept the breach and sue for damages, or in the alternative 2. terminate the contract (for the other party's repudiation of the contract) and sue for damages. Prior to purporting to terminate a contract however, the innocent party must not have accepted the breach by conduct or words. Also, stipulations in contracts may be conditions of the contract although they are named as warranties in the agreement.
Realising this, it does seem highly likely that it is only a warantee. If that were the case then actually you might be able to sue for damages (compensation), something like depreciation suffered on your old car in the interim period. BUT, it is pretty evident that the used market is rising (fast) so that amount would likely be immaterial. Secondly the incumbent car would normally have been part of the deal as a trade-in at an agreed pricing, meaning the loss would be £Nil.
So in this case it does seem that the OP has taken a risk - electing to sell a car privately and before delivery, presumably to "make a quick buck" - and is now stuck. Which, looked at like that, unfortunately leaves little sympathy.
Sorry!
lets not forget someone else has elected to take lots of orders 'to make a quick buck' that they now seem to be struggling to forfill in the timeframes specified.
Have you tried writing a formal letter to the dealer stating your reasons for requesting your money back and copying this letter to Fiat customer services.
Simply state that if they don't comply you will be contacting a solicitor to take it further.
don't ask for compensation, just your deposit, keep the letter simple and to the point.
Give them 7 days to respond and I think they will.
Simply state that if they don't comply you will be contacting a solicitor to take it further.
don't ask for compensation, just your deposit, keep the letter simple and to the point.
Give them 7 days to respond and I think they will.
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They may well do. But they might say since it's only a warrantee that they will sue the OP for specific completion - then where would things go, it would be a very soured relationship.
To get a better price than part exchange, to not have to insure and tax two cars at once, there are several reasons.
To be honest I would just accept the refund of deposit, but if the dealer became unreasonable and refused to do it causing me more work, then I would push for compensation for the time taken to extract my money from the dealer. If it goes to small claims, you are entitled to claim reasonable costs to do that regardless of the contract terms.
They would charge you if it were the other way round.
And 2 minutes for a burger or 5 minutes is not quite the same as 3 months or 6 months.
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If they have already built it, then I can see why they wouldn't refund the deposit. But as it's still another couple of months to go before delivery, it would seem they haven't yet. In which case, it seems unreasonable that they not refund you when they've almost doubled the agreed delivery time.
The question is, do you have any evidence (perferably in writing) of them saying that it would be 10-12 weeks. If so, I would've thought they were in breach of contract.
But, if the agreement was just a vocal "it'll probably be 10-12 weeks" then you'll just have to wait.
Seems a bit odd why it's taking so long though, I thought 10-12 weeks was the standard wait, so what's the cause of the delay?
I suggest making sure you speak to the dealer's head manager/owner, to make sure it's not just a case of the salesman forgetting to actually place the order, and him placing the order now he's been chased on it.
If no luck with dealer manager, escalate it to Fiat. There's a contact us section on their website that they usually respond to within a few days.
BTW, When did you find out it wouldn't be ready until of January? Was it just before you were expecting delivery?
The question is, do you have any evidence (perferably in writing) of them saying that it would be 10-12 weeks. If so, I would've thought they were in breach of contract.
But, if the agreement was just a vocal "it'll probably be 10-12 weeks" then you'll just have to wait.
Seems a bit odd why it's taking so long though, I thought 10-12 weeks was the standard wait, so what's the cause of the delay?
I suggest making sure you speak to the dealer's head manager/owner, to make sure it's not just a case of the salesman forgetting to actually place the order, and him placing the order now he's been chased on it.
If no luck with dealer manager, escalate it to Fiat. There's a contact us section on their website that they usually respond to within a few days.
BTW, When did you find out it wouldn't be ready until of January? Was it just before you were expecting delivery?
It's just occurred to me that as end of January is about 10-12 weeks from now, they've probably afraid that you'll take your deposit and place your order elsewhere, hence why they won't give you your deposit back.
But the question still remains... why has the wait doubled? Anybody else having to wait that long? Is there anything unusual about the spec you ordered perhaps?
But the question still remains... why has the wait doubled? Anybody else having to wait that long? Is there anything unusual about the spec you ordered perhaps?
Nothing usual. 1.2 Lounge in Bossa Nova White & the only extra is the side rubber strip.
At advise of trading standards I sent my request & reason for a refund to both the dealer & Fiat UK by recorded delivery. They both had the letter for over a week now & there has been no response or acknowledgement from either.
At advise of trading standards I sent my request & reason for a refund to both the dealer & Fiat UK by recorded delivery. They both had the letter for over a week now & there has been no response or acknowledgement from either.
just to backtrack slightly, if there really is nothing in the contract about when the contract has to be completed by, then it is inferred it is a reasonable time. If after a reasonable time nothing much happens then it is open to either party to make time of the essence. If a standard in the motor industry is 21 days then that would be a reasonable notice to give at which time the contract comes to an end and you'd be entitled to your deposit back. I doubt there'd be a compensation element solely reimbursement of expenses in pursuing claims. If the dealer really won't budge then it's the small claims court if you don't want to wait any longer but if you really want the car?
I also cancelled my car for similar reasons, here is the draft copy of a letter i wrote to the dealer to confirm my cancellation, i also sent a copy to fiat customer relations who sent me some vouchers of good will and i got my deposit back. Good Luck.
Following our telephone conversation yesterday, please take this email as written confirmation, of my Fiat 500 order cancellation. Order placed 22/8/2009
I was once told that purchasing a new car was supposed to be an enjoyable experience, but have found this to be one of the worst. I feel extremely let down and disappointed by the Fiat Brand, and feel that their behaviour is unfair and perhaps unethical in relation to my production slot being given to another customer because Fiat need to be seen to support the government scrappage scheme. I do not feel very valued as a customer or that my money is worth as much to you as somebody who is on the scrappage scheme and needs financial assistance from the government to buy a new car.
If had been told when I ordered the car that I would in the end have a six month wait for the 500 as a result of the scrappage scheme I could have taken that into account and probably still ordered the car and endured the six month wait, but I have not found the information supplied to me by you as a dealer and fiat brand to be acceptable, my expected delivery date has changed every time I have contacted the dealer, with originally being told I would have my new 500 would be with me on the 14/11/2009, the dates then changed to; 24/12/2009, 30/12/2009, 30/01/2010, 14/02/2010, 14/12/2009 respectively, on the 28th October 2009 I was told my car was at status 16 with uk delivery expected on the 30/11/2009.
Seven days later, when I was under the impression my car would be well on the way to being manufactured I received a phone call to tell me that my car would not be in the UK until 2/02/2010 and was back at status 10, due to the Fiat brand having to show commitment to the scrappage scheme. I believe that the length of the delay is unacceptable and do not at all feel comfortable with orders being swapped around to ensure I get my car sooner or later, the length of time isn’t viable as I required the car for Christmas, and the order was placed over a month in advance of the quoted 12 weeks waiting list originally quoted to us to allow for any deviations.
I believe all of the above factors into why I have cancelled, and that you are in breach of our contact and would like to withhold from the contact due to delivery being outside of what I feel is reasonable time. I am within my rights as a consumer, following advice from consumer direct and trading standards to be returned to the original position before the order was placed but would like you to take into consideration that you have held our deposit of £500 in your bank account and would like to be re-imbursed accordingly.
Thanks Stripysox
Sent a very similar letter to the dealer over a week ago & have got no response or acknowledgement.
Also sent it to Fiat UK & have had an email acknowledgement from them that they will look into my complaint.
My husband & I have ordered a number of new cars in the past (Corsa, Focus, Clio etc) & all the delivery times have bveen pretty spot on give or take a week or so.
If anybody is ordering as a non-scrappage customer then please be aware of what's going on before you place your order as you can generally ignore what the dealer tells you & expect to be treated like cr*p!
Sent a very similar letter to the dealer over a week ago & have got no response or acknowledgement.
Also sent it to Fiat UK & have had an email acknowledgement from them that they will look into my complaint.
My husband & I have ordered a number of new cars in the past (Corsa, Focus, Clio etc) & all the delivery times have bveen pretty spot on give or take a week or so.
If anybody is ordering as a non-scrappage customer then please be aware of what's going on before you place your order as you can generally ignore what the dealer tells you & expect to be treated like cr*p!
I hope you get your deposit back. And I feel really sorry for you that this has happened.
I feel very lucky that I was not scrappage and yet received my car in the time quoted (13 weeks). I guess it's becaue I ordered about a month before you.
crabman
I feel very lucky that I was not scrappage and yet received my car in the time quoted (13 weeks). I guess it's becaue I ordered about a month before you.
crabman
Fiat UK customer services contacted me this afternoon but only to advise that the contract is between the customer & the dealer and is nothing to do with them.
They said there is nothing they can do, although they did say they had spoken to the dealer who had refused to refund my deposit.
They said there is nothing they can do, although they did say they had spoken to the dealer who had refused to refund my deposit.
Hmmmm not cool...... Suggest you take some sort of legal action against them if you want to cancel your order.
ok, from a dealers point of view.
Unfortunately you have ordered a car which is very opular. Your Clio, Focus etc that you bought previously were run of the mill cars which are mass produces.
To sell your car before you had any confirmation of delivery for your new car was your own decision, it was a foolish one, but your own.
The dealer is not helping themselves by not keeping you in the loop and therefore creating a negative response from you.
Have you asked if they have a trade vehicle for you to use until your car arrives?
Claiming other manufacturers can manage to mass produce cars is a silly thing to say, every manufacturer has different build plants and different economies of scale. It cannot be compared.
500 is now producing the C and so build has slowed down even more.
I'm sorry but if you want to order a vehicle specific to you then you pay the penalty of having to wait.
Ask for a loan vehicle off them but be patient and wait for the 500. it'll be worth it. Also ask your dealer to keep you better informed, it is their duty really!
Good luck and keep us all in the loop
Unfortunately you have ordered a car which is very opular. Your Clio, Focus etc that you bought previously were run of the mill cars which are mass produces.
To sell your car before you had any confirmation of delivery for your new car was your own decision, it was a foolish one, but your own.
The dealer is not helping themselves by not keeping you in the loop and therefore creating a negative response from you.
Have you asked if they have a trade vehicle for you to use until your car arrives?
Claiming other manufacturers can manage to mass produce cars is a silly thing to say, every manufacturer has different build plants and different economies of scale. It cannot be compared.
500 is now producing the C and so build has slowed down even more.
I'm sorry but if you want to order a vehicle specific to you then you pay the penalty of having to wait.
Ask for a loan vehicle off them but be patient and wait for the 500. it'll be worth it. Also ask your dealer to keep you better informed, it is their duty really!
Good luck and keep us all in the loop
It is an unreasonable change in timing though you have to admit. I personally think that if the car isn't already built or of a really specific spec that the dealer should just give back the deposit. If it were a Yuck Yuck Green with red leather interior, 16" multispokes, bodykit and rear spoiler I could understand them not wanting to budge but this is a 1.2 BNW Lounge with side rubbing strip which will sit on the forecourt for a week at most before someone wanders in and buys it because they can take it there and then.
