Technical Clutch nightmare mobile mechanic

[dryburgh]

Hi, i am currently stuck in my ducato 3.0 x250 motorhome in a park n ride.

The clutch pedal kept dropping to the floor, I replaced master cylinder, no difference.

Advised most likely the slave.

Got a mobile mechanic, purchased a clutch kit including slave.

Mechanic came fitted kit appears to have pedal.

Mechanic now cannot get the drive shaft engaged fully on the n/s, he has spent3 hrs trying to force it in without success.

He has now deserted the job and I am stuck.

Any help would be grarefully appreciated

 

[jackwhoo]

If the driveshaft has been left as far in as mobile guy can get it Can you post a photo of the driveshaft where it enters the gearbox?

 

[dryburgh]

Hi, thanks for the reply, I am away from the van, and it has the wheel back on minus the shaft, it is about quarter of an inch?

He did appear to be pretty brutal with trying to refit it.

It was perfectly fine prior to him doing the clutch, it was a leaky slave but replaced clutch also.

Can he have damaged something inside the hole where the shaft goes?

 

[jackwhoo]

When you can a photo of the end of drive shaft that goes in gearbox would be good.

I have a feeling that there may not be a spring circlip on the splined part of inner cv joint that goes in gearbox.
If there is no circlip the inner end is retained in gearbox by a spring in outer cv joint that pushes the inner and outer cv joints apart . The outer cv is fixed in hub the spring keeps the inner cv pushed into gearbox.


If the above is the case with yours then the inner cv joint was in far enough because it can go no further. Around 6mm from flange of cv joint to oil seal doesn't sound unfeasible.

Smashing the driveshaft into the gearbox is not ideal !
I expect a new drive shaft oil seal will be required in near future.....but you will be a driveshaft expert by then.....or get one fitted now.

DO NOT roll or tow or otherwise move the vehicle without an outer cv joint fitted with hub nut tightened- outer cv and hub nut holds the wheel bearing together stopping it being damaged .
Plus the wheel could well separate from vehicle without cv and hub nut.

The weight of vehicle should not be on wheel bearing without cv and tight hub nut....... Fingers xed you will be lucky.

Plus do not tow vehicle with no transmission fluid in gearbox unless front wheels lifted.

@dryburgh

 

[dryburgh]

Thanks again, there is no circlip, just the ridged rod(sorry for my terminology)

when he re fitted the shaft he put the gear oil in and it was running out as quick, he then went and got a new seal, which seemed to take a lot of huffing and puffing to change, followed by declaration that it is not fitting properly, when turning the other sides hub the shaft did turn but he said he could stop it by hand so it wasn't in correctly?
I am terrified he has done damage inside the box, is this possible?
He had the end part (metal casing with shaft sticking out) detached from the rest hammering it into the hole.
I have ordered a new shaft in case,
Sorry if I am slavering, what do I do to fix this?

 

[jackwhoo]

What a mess.

Inner cv joint - If no circlip just a splined shaft it simply slips into diffential gear with matching splines .

Photo as soon as you get chance.

If in gear ,any gear , that stops the diffential gears turning so with one cv joint held stationary you should not be able to turn the other. If in neutral you can hold one still and turning the other with turn the gears in the gearbox.

I would want to get my own drive shaft oil seal to make 100% sure.

Did he refit the gearbox drain plug? Is that why transmission fluid running out?

Could the diffential be damaged? Possibly but they are pretty strong and there is no way to check without taking it apart- so keep your fingers crossed.

 

[jackwhoo]

Many years ago(30+years) with some Peugeot Citroen boxes if both drive shafts were to be removed when the first was removed it was essential to fit a dummy shaft. This was to stop the diffential gears dropping out of alignment ,which would stop the drive shafts refitting .

 

[dryburgh]

The oil was running out of the side of the shaft, I did put my finger inside the hole but it was smooth not ribbed? Was it just the seal I was touching?

 

[dryburgh]

so if it relies on this spring, do you have to affix to the hub fully to confirm correct fitting?
The mechanic!!! Was trying to get it seated fully while holding the other part of the shaft jamming it into the diff, expecting it to engage, but I'm guessing it will just spring back? And only by tightening the 46mm nut on the hub will it lock in?

 

[jackwhoo]

The oil was running out of the side of the shaft, I did put my finger inside the hole but it was smooth not ribbed? Was it just the seal I was touching?

There is no way I can tell

 

[jackwhoo]

so if it relies on this spring, do you have to affix to the hub fully to confirm correct fitting?
The mechanic!!! Was trying to get it seated fully while holding the other part of the shaft jamming it into the diff, expecting it to engage, but I'm guessing it will just spring back? And only by tightening the 46mm nut on the hub will it lock in?

If the splines are aligning it just slides in and stops when fully in.

There is a gap between the vertical face of the cv joint and the gearbox where oil seal is pressed in ie the vertical face doesn't touch the gearbox.

When drive shaft fitted one end is fixed to the hub the other is in gearbox. The drive shaft is spring loaded . When unfitted the driveshaft is longer than the distance from the gearbox to the hub. Fitting driveshaft compresses the internal spring of driveshaft ensuring the inner cv joint is always being pushed into gearbox.

 

[jackwhoo]

If the driveshaft outer end is not fitted to the hub and the suspension strut not fixed to lower ball joint , the inner cv joint will just slide out because it is not retained by a circlip because it doesn't have a circlip(Which is more normal).
It doesn't spring out , there is no spring pushing it out of gear box it just slides out because nothing is holding it in gearbox and gravity is acting on the driveshaft.

The inner cv joint is pushed toward gearbox by the spring loaded driveshaft which needs something to push against......The hub...... The hub must be prevented from being pushed outward....by the top strut mount and the lower ball joint.

It is sensible to put it all back together before filling with fluid.

 

[dryburgh]

so if it relies on this spring, do you have to affix to the hub fully to confirm correct fitting?
The mechanic!!! Was trying to get it seated fully while holding the other part of the shaft jamming it into the diff, expecting it to engage, but I'm guessing it will just spring back? And only by tightening the 46mm nut on the hub will it lock in

 

[dryburgh]

thanks jackwhoo
I understand now, I also get the weight pressure with the shaft out and it sitting on its wheels, I will jack it up this morning.
I just find it incredible a so called mechanic can change the clutch and then get this part wrong, he seems to have put everything else back where it should be hopefully!

I will take some pics and post later today
Cheers

 

[dryburgh]

Pics as mentioned

 

[jackwhoo]

Yes that is a drive shaft with internal spring that keeps inner cv joint in gearbox.

 

[jackwhoo]

In last photo marks are visible showing how hard the inner cv joint was driven into gearbox

 

[dryburgh]

hi pics of the entry

 

[jackwhoo]

The photos are good.

The differential gear that the cv joint splined shaft should slide into has been displaced . In photo 1 it is visible laying at an angle the internal splines are visible.

 

[jackwhoo]

Pardon our interruption...

Look at the middle gears in that photo
They have splines through centre hole

One of those has been displaced inside differential so inner cv joint not fitting /engaging at all.

The differential will have to be removed from the rest of the gearbox (checked for hammering damaged)reassembled correctly(a shim/dished washer has been displaced too) then reassembled to gearbox . This may be possible with the gearbox in vehicle which would save time and cost....or gearbox may have to come out if insufficient room to detach differential assembly.

Again DO NOT TOW OR ROLL VEHICLE WITH FRONT WHEELS ON GROUND