Technical Clutch failing - changing the fluid?!

[vexorg]

It'd work fine for about a week, then corrosion would render both master and slave cylinders scrap.



This isn't the case, as the many owners who've had to prematurely replace their clutch hydraulic components will testify.

You are really pessimistic about rust, it's have given it a year before it failed. I dont have a fiat 500, but we can try it on yours

Failure could just be a fiat thing, I've have many other cars with the clutch fluid never changed and no premature failures. I had a friend that claimed they'd never buy italian condoms based on fiat rubber for seals and gators!

 

[greypanda]

Had a call from the garage… as suspected a pipe burst, leaked fluid on to the master and slave cylinders and they’ve failed.

Clutch absolutely fine.

They said they see 500s newer and less mileage than mine in for the same problem… a shame as clearly the parts are just poor quality.

Also asked the question on changing the brake/clutch fluid. They recommend doing this every 4 years!

 

[Baglady1990]

It'd work fine for about a week, then corrosion would render both master and slave cylinders scrap.



This isn't the case, as the many owners who've had to prematurely replace their clutch hydraulic components will testify.

The absorbed water overwhelms the corrosion inhibitors in the fluid, and once this happens, the steel parts shed tiny rust particles as the pistons slide over the seals. These particles are abrasive and damage the seals, causing them to leak.

When bleeding cars that haven't been regularly maintained, you'll sometimes see old hydraulic fluid that's almost black from the combination of rust and rubber particles.

There's not much fluid in the clutch actuating mechanism, and experience has shown it deteriorates quite quickly on the 500/Panda.



I'd agree; it should be changed at least as often as the brake fluid is changed.

It'd work fine for about a week, then corrosion would render both master and slave cylinders scrap.



This isn't the case, as the many owners who've had to prematurely replace their clutch hydraulic components will testify.

The absorbed water overwhelms the corrosion inhibitors in the fluid, and once this happens, the steel parts shed tiny rust particles as the pistons slide over the seals. These particles are abrasive and damage the seals, causing them to leak.

When bleeding cars that haven't been regularly maintained, you'll sometimes see old hydraulic fluid that's almost black from the combination of rust and rubber particles.

There's not much fluid in the clutch actuating mechanism, and experience has shown it deteriorates quite quickly on the 500/Panda.



I'd agree; it should be changed at least as often as the brake fluid

The clutch fluid is the small pot on the drivers side above the air con pump the yellow top one on the passenger’s side is the brake fluid but as mentioned the same dot 4 fluid is used

Again the fluid is hydroscopic so any water ingress will render the fluid useless and won’t operate the master & slave so your clutch won’t work!

I did quite well in chemistry at school and one of the first things my grandad did was to show me under the bonnet of his talbot sunbeam (I think it was a talbot) so I learned the fluids quite early god bless my pappy

 

[Baglady1990]

Had a call from the garage… as suspected a pipe burst, leaked fluid on to the master and slave cylinders and they’ve failed.

Clutch absolutely fine.

They said they see 500s newer and less mileage than mine in for the same problem… a shame as clearly the parts are just poor quality.

Also asked the question on changing the brake/clutch fluid. They recommend doing this every 4 years!

I’d definitely be doing it every 2/3 it’s not a hard job!

 

[Baglady1990]

You are really pessimistic about rust, it's have given it a year before it failed. I dont have a fiat 500, but we can try it on yours

Failure could just be a fiat thing, I've have many other cars with the clutch fluid never changed and no premature failures. I had a friend that claimed they'd never buy italian condoms based on fiat rubber for seals and gators!

I don’t think JR is pessimistic at all but I do know one thing, he knows his ****

 

[greypanda]

I’d definitely be doing it every 2/3 it’s not a hard job!

My car has just turned 5 and I’m sure it has never been changed (doesn’t say on any of my service history), so I definitely agree with you - 2/3 years not 4!

 

[vexorg]

but I do know one thing, he knows his ****

How do you know that? experience has shown me that hydraulic clutches dont really fail due to old fluid. And coolant pumps dont fail in a week, even if old rusty water is in there, so I'd take that info given here with a pinch of salt (not to mention technically the argument is very week).

 

[John202020]

How do you know that? experience has shown me that hydraulic clutches dont really fail due to old fluid. And coolant pumps dont fail in a week, even if old rusty water is in there, so I'd take that info given here with a pinch of salt (not to mention technically the argument is very week).

Have to say on our old Mazda 15 years old the fluid in the clutch system(same reservoir as the brakes which has had the fluid changed) must be the original as I've never bleed it, so yes it will still work fine even after many years with old fluid

 

[AC43]

Had a call from the garage… as suspected a pipe burst, leaked fluid on to the master and slave cylinders and they’ve failed.

Clutch absolutely fine.

They said they see 500s newer and less mileage than mine in for the same problem… a shame as clearly the parts are just poor quality.

Also asked the question on changing the brake/clutch fluid. They recommend doing this every 4 years!

I think this might have just happened to my wife's 2015 1.2. I stuck it on the drive yesterday to give it a good clean and when I came to shift it the clutch went first nearly to floor and then went to the floor completely.

Earlier in the day, I noticed quite a large fluid stain under one of my neighbour's car which was parked just where the 500 had been before my wife had taken it out. I assumed the leak was from his car but, looking back, I suspect it was my wife's.

I told her about it and she said that she'd begun to find the clutch action erratic when she'd been out in it so I reckon the master/slave/hose must have been on the way out at that point.

I'll book it in to the local garage tomorrow and get the AA to take it round.

It's only just clicked past 19k miles so it's a bit rubbish if a component has failed that age/mileage.

 

[Baglady1990]

I think this might have just happened to my wife's 2015 1.2. I stuck it on the drive yesterday to give it a good clean and when I came to shift it the clutch went first nearly to floor and then went to the floor completely.

Earlier in the day, I noticed quite a large fluid stain under one of my neighbour's car which was parked just where the 500 had been before my wife had taken it out. I assumed the leak was from his car but, looking back, I suspect it was my wife's.

I told her about it and she said that she'd begun to find the clutch action erratic when she'd been out in it so I reckon the master/slave/hose must have been on the way out at that point.

I'll book it in to the local garage tomorrow and get the AA to take it round.

It's only just clicked past 19k miles so it's a bit rubbish if a component has failed that age/mileage.

Indeed it’s apparently a weak point on the 500s saying that I’ve had just about every other issue except with my clutch hydraulics! But I did replace the slave & master before they failed!

I’d recommend getting the whole thing replaced so the master (from clutch pedal) the pipe & the slave cylinder

 

[AC43]

Indeed it’s apparently a weak point on the 500s saying that I’ve had just about every other issue except with my clutch hydraulics! But I did replace the slave & master before they failed!

I’d recommend getting the whole thing replaced so the master (from clutch pedal) the pipe & the slave cylinder

I just had another look. I think the fluid stains on the road were a red herring; I found the clutch reservoir and it was still at the correct level.

BUT the fluid looked pretty rank. So, as Ralf S pointed out, that's probably not helping - that and endless gear changes it does here in NW London.

I'll take your advice and suggest the garage does the whole lot.

My wife is not at all impressed at having to use my Merc now

 

[Baglady1990]

I just had another look. I think the fluid stains on the road were a red herring; I found the clutch reservoir and it was still at the correct level.

BUT the fluid looked pretty rank. So, as Ralf S pointed out, that's probably not helping - that and endless gear changes it does here in NW London.

I'll take your advice and suggest the garage does the whole lot.

My wife is not at all impressed at having to use my Merc now

Haha I bet she isn’t! Yes the fluid is hydroscopic and susceptible to water ingress .. though this may not effect the clutch like it would the brakes… it will still have an effect as some have suggested
As for the master & especially the slave get the garage to crease the rods I did mine recently and I also made sure my gear cable ends (top and rear of gearbox) were suitably greased though my car is older than yours… so yours should be ok

 

[Baglady1990]

Grease the rods (autocorrect)

 

[John202020]

I too replaced all the hydraulics before they failed 5/6 years ago, was well worth it

 

[Ralf S.]

What's the score with replacing the hydraulics? Rasputin is going to get a new clutch in the summer, so I'll be taking that area apart...

I've seen the joiner piece that other people have problems separating... Rasputin's looks neither too manky or too "great" so I suspect that it'll cause problems, if I have to separate it. My impression is that it doesn't need to come apart for a new clutch.. but I'm down there anyway, so a new slave might be a good idea, as a preventative thing.

If I replace the slave and can't separate the joint/or it's nasty... what else do I need? I presume that the pipe from the joiner is connected to the master cylinder (somewhere behind the battery or over by the steering wheel side). Is that all, or is there anything else? I'll get the bits in advance, rather than finding out what's broken/tatty and then ordering them.


Ralf S.

 

[John202020]

You can replace just the slave, old pipe, at the slave by removing the clip and pulling the pipe out, note I replaced all of ours as I couldn't/didn't try getting the connector apart, however it was clear the master was weeping behind the dash/firewall that was hidden from view?

 

[Baglady1990]

What's the score with replacing the hydraulics? Rasputin is going to get a new clutch in the summer, so I'll be taking that area apart...

I've seen the joiner piece that other people have problems separating... Rasputin's looks neither too manky or too "great" so I suspect that it'll cause problems, if I have to separate it. My impression is that it doesn't need to come apart for a new clutch.. but I'm down there anyway, so a new slave might be a good idea, as a preventative thing.

I’d replace slave & master all at once … I tried for 2 hours on an off to separate the connection it just wasn’t possible
The fluid pipe is just clipped on along the firewall and comes out slave side it’s not a hard job just fiddly
If you replace with luk the bleeding point on the slave is a pain as the fluid leaks from the bleed screw too! Be prepared with lots of kitchen roll

If I replace the slave and can't separate the joint/or it's nasty... what else do I need? I presume that the pipe from the joiner is connected to the master cylinder (somewhere behind the battery or over by the steering wheel side). Is that all, or is there anything else? I'll get the bits in advance, rather than finding out what's broken/tatty and then ordering them.

 

[AC43]

Paulo sent me a picture of the offending part; there's a one-way valve that sits partway along the pipe below the reservoir (I think) and it has split. So he's replacing that, all the pipework and, I think, the slave as its sold as one unit.

I'd post a pic if I could get it out of a text message and onto here.

 

[Baglady1990]

Paulo sent me a picture of the offending part; there's a one-way valve that sits partway along the pipe below the reservoir (I think) and it has split. So he's replacing that, all the pipework and, I think, the slave as its sold as one unit.

I'd post a pic if I could get it out of a text message and onto here.

Then your good to go now you have a beautiful golden coloured clutch fluid … I’ve seen so many 500s with dark fluid .. a bit lighter than

 

[AC43]

Then your good to go now you have a beautiful golden coloured clutch fluid … I’ve seen so many 500s with dark fluid .. a bit lighter than

Thanks BL. The fluid in mine was rank-looking.

It's the valve at the bottom of the pic that's split. And it's that whole assembly he's replacing.

Is that what you replaced? And is that the slave cylinder at the back?