General cinquecento - tappetts - really noisy - newbie

[forfein]

I have been searching the forums for info on Fiat Cinquicento and noisy tappets

Got lots of info, but I am wondering if my Fiat may be different, and I hope that someone may be able to help !?

As you can see I am a newbie !
I just bought this Fiat Cinquicento, it looks OK, yellow, drives OK-ish . . . it is to go onto the back of my Hymermobile motorhome, and then I want to tour Europe
When I bought the car, I noticed that the tappetts seemed a bit noisy.

However, this guy rebuilds engines, and he has rebuilt this one. He has skimmed the head, and done all sorts of other stuff to it. He toured Europe in it, and he says it never let him down.
He seems genuine enough, and the car drives nice enough, but the tappett noise is AWFUL !
Any suggestions please?

 

[fingers99]

Which engine is it?

The 899 has hydraulic tappets which tend to fail (permanent cure is to find an old Panda engines, pinch the -- adjustable -- tappets out of that) and probably need replacing.

1108 has adjustment by shim. Easy enough to do.

 

[forfein]

Hi, thanks for that info. I did do a search for some info on here about it, and I did find a lot, especially the bit about changing over for a Panda or something similar.

I believe the engine is 1.1 engine ???
It is the Cinquecento Sporting model, and I think it has the FIRE engine in it. Whatever this is ?
I have found a good book on this car, and it does mention that if the head is taken off, not to turn the thing over, because the oil leaks out of the tappets chamber, and the tappetts are "self adjusting" or "automatic" . . . .. not heard of that one before, and if the oil escapes it lets air into the hydraulic chamber and makes the tappetts noisy ! . . . .
I spoke to the guy I bought it off, and he said that when he rebuilt the engine everything was cleaned as it should be ! . . . whatever that means ! . .. . I dont want to take the engine to bits if there is no need to, but I have to admit that it sounds like a "Tractor" at the moment !

 

[David C]

The 1108 FIRE engine doesn't have hydraulic tappets.
As said, adjustment is done with different size shims.

 

[fingers99]

Adjustment is by classic Lampredi shim in bucket on the 1108. No nasty hydraulic tappets.

The process is pretty well covered in the Haynes and Porter manuals. Only special tool you really need is a feeler guage.

This is useful to see exactly what is what.

 

[DODGE 360v8]

I have a fiat cinquecento soleil sunroof model the rare one, in good condition low miles we also tow behind our American motorhome...now those tappets where noisy on and off having done the following they where still no good.
1 flush and change oil
2 wyns lifter tappet oil
3 change tappets £
THE PROBLEM REMAINED
So i set to work to really find out why ?.. and this the problem, do this at your own risk that's my disclaimer !!

Remove rocker set up complete photo and mark up all the positions of the arms left to right before taking apart. Then take apart...photo again !!

1 notice in the head there is only one oil way feed through one rocker post.
2 the machining on the rocker-posts mating surfaces look like a plough field, so on a flat surface with medium wet and dry clean these surfaces up so they are smooth and no machining marks.
3 notice the rocker shaft has 2 oil-way drilling so when being built it can be fitted any way round ..using grinder of dremel grind a bit off the upper now to be unused hole, mig weld it over and file / grind back to shape.
4 look at the 8 oil holes now grind with dremel or file an oil groove approx 10mm long 1mm deep downward as you look front , As these holes only just line up with oil holes in rocker arms.!!!! and close off in certain positions !!
4 depress the tappets and re-prime with oil you can even do away with the tin clip or sometimes plastic , take care the tappets are free to slide in rocker arm freely, if not using clips retain in arm with pvc tape for fitting back on head as they can drop out.
4 but back together rocker arm / shaft complete the correct way AND OIL FEED LINING UP WITH THE POST IN THE HEAD to the now one hole in the rocker shaft !!!
5 put all back together check rockers are on valve springs and so on remove that pvc tape if used
6 change oil and filter check over

Start up engine allow oil to circulate and get to the parts it needs to.
Engine runs as sweet as a nut, we have had many good runs out, holiday in Devon too, so dont change to panda type,new tappets or wonder oil additives.. Fix it.. its a design fault .

Problem solved ! was oil and pressure loss !
Engineer

 

[DODGE 360v8]

Just to add ours is 899 engine with no tappet noise :idea:

 

[David C]

Just to add ours is 899 engine with no tappet noise :idea:

You'd be surprised how quiet the non hydraulic Panda setup is too.

Is yours the early hydraulic type with adjusters or later type with no adjusters?

 

[DODGE 360v8]

Yes your right i bet the adjustable set up is quiet, my car is ( should be) a P reg and has hydraulic only. After these mods engine so quiet you can only hear single point injection and alternator !

 

[David C]

Yes your right i bet the adjustable set up is quiet, my car is ( should be) a P reg and has hydraulic only. After these mods engine so quiet you can only hear single point injection and alternator !

Mine was the early type with hydraulic on one end and adjuster on the other.
Having a manual adjuster on a hydraulic rocker is basically an admission that they are unlikely to work properly!

I had a few hydraulic tappets that had fallen apart and the rest were suspect. Replacements were expensive and from every report up to then were still going to be rubbish! So I lifted the pure mechanical setup off of a Panda in the local scrapyard... the Panda clearly hadn't had an oil change for a long time as the whole assembly was coated in thick thick treacle but I spent a day cleaning them up and opening the blocked oil ways and once fitted and adjusted it ran lovely. Night and day difference.
But I expect your pure hydraulic setup is quieter when cold

Slightly related, I was next to a Ducati in traffic the other morning and the absolute clattery racket coming from that was ridulous

 

[DODGE 360v8]

Its good hot and cold have even removed new tappets put old ones back in when i did mods, been on long runs to Cornwall in hot weather no problem more noise from webasto sun roof ..another story repaired this now..that was'nt easy !
Going back to that rocker shaft, it dosent need hole in top, just somewhere else for the oil to go..plug that with weld I have posted in my pictures what i did, do it this way only costs you time ..and need to be a bit tinkering.
Anyone like to buy some tappets !!

 

[Chrisoleil]

OHHH this is handy.

I have a Soleil too! I swapped a sei soleil roof and it's much quieter than the cinq soleil roof if you ever want to upgrade!