Technical Cinq 899 starting/running problem

[zwack]

I've got a Cinq 899 that hasn't had a problem with the engine in the 8 years I've had it. Took it out before Christmas and it got 500 yards before the engine stopped and wouldn't restart. It tried to turn over but wouldn't actually start. While waiting for recovery I tried again and it started but stalled again after about 45 seconds and wouldn't restart. Green Flag sent a guy in a van who tried Sure Start with no luck, and he reckoned that fuel wasn't making it to the throttle body. He suspected the fuel pump. Another 2 hours wait for recovery and I tried again. This time it ran for a couple of minutes before stalling and failing to restart. He dropped it off at my house and the following morning it started and I could drive it into my garage. I've left it for a few weeks and ordered a fuel pump and filter. Just tried it now and it started very briefly, then stopped and now the battery's flat with all this attempted starting.

Currently charging battery, with Plan A to replace fuel pump and filter. Does this seem like a good first step? Anyone any better ideas? I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that it sometimes starts and it seems more likely to start if it's been left a while. It sounds weirdly diagnostic enough for someone to know just what this is. Think the repair guy was guessing a bit, but to be fair he was younger than the car! When the engine has started it has run fine, no stuttering or indication that it has a problem.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[loucifer]

When you try to restart it after it has stopped, can you hear the fuel pump priming? I had a problem not starting due to a connector of the green wire that powers the pump. Check if it is an electrical issue before you replace the pump.

 

[zwack]

Can't hear anything from the pump area but the wiring seems solid at the pump end. Do you know where it goes at the other end?

 

[Popitinpete]

I've got a Cinq 899 that hasn't had a problem with the engine in the 8 years I've had it. Took it out before Christmas and it got 500 yards before the engine stopped and wouldn't restart. It tried to turn over but wouldn't actually start. While waiting for recovery I tried again and it started but stalled again after about 45 seconds and wouldn't restart. Green Flag sent a guy in a van who tried Sure Start with no luck, and he reckoned that fuel wasn't making it to the throttle body. He suspected the fuel pump. Another 2 hours wait for recovery and I tried again. This time it ran for a couple of minutes before stalling and failing to restart. He dropped it off at my house and the following morning it started and I could drive it into my garage. I've left it for a few weeks and ordered a fuel pump and filter. Just tried it now and it started very briefly, then stopped and now the battery's flat with all this attempted starting.

Currently charging battery, with Plan A to replace fuel pump and filter. Does this seem like a good first step? Anyone any better ideas? I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that it sometimes starts and it seems more likely to start if it's been left a while. It sounds weirdly diagnostic enough for someone to know just what this is. Think the repair guy was guessing a bit, but to be fair he was younger than the car! When the engine has started it has run fine, no stuttering or indication that it has a problem.

Cheers,

Phil

Yes sounds fuel related. If you can't hear the pump priming or whirring away you need to check the electric feed to the pump because if you put the new pump on it will be the same problem.
There are wiring diagrams on here to give you a clue what to chase.

BE VERY CAREFUL OF SPARKS NEAR THE TANK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS

 

[loucifer]

Can't hear anything from the pump area but the wiring seems solid at the pump end. Do you know where it goes at the other end?

The green/black + wire goes to a block connector under a plastic panel between the fuse box and the left hand door. There is a ground wire there also but I am not sure if it is the pump ground. It could be different in left hand or right hand drive cars. From there the + wire goes to the fuel pump relay next to the ECU. I don't know if your cinquecento has an inertia switch and if that is causing problems.

 

[zwack]

Thanks to you both for the info. Had the pump out because I can't just leave things be. Am finding the clips that attach the hose from the top of the actual pump to the top of the pump unit to be a sod to get back on. Need to pick up a multimeter to test the electrical supply to the pump anyway so it'll be next weekend before I do anything else on it.

 

[Mastrofou]

Do you have any warning lights on the dashboard such as the key code (orange-yellow light) ?

 

[zwack]

No warning lights at all. No indication anything is wrong beyond the engine cutting out.

 

[zwack]

Well, I've worked out that the fuel pump is not the cause, so I'm looking at the fuel pump relay. There's two identical relays behind my ecu, one on the left with a 20 amp fuse behind it and one on the right with a 5 amp fuse behind. Does anyone know off the top of their head which one's the relay for the fuel pump, what the other one's for, and could I just swap them to test whether the relay's at fault?

 

[zwack]

If anyone's got a spare relay of the type shown here then I'd be delighted to hear from them. Doesn't even click when 12v is shoved through it. Of course this means that I swapped the fuel pump for no reason but at least I'm a lot more clued up on the fuel system now

 

[zwack]

Replaced the faulty fuel pump relay with one I got from eBay and got a weird problem. As soon as I connected the battery back up, it sounded like the fuel pump started sending fuel to the engine. On starting the engine, it ran for 3-4 seconds then cut out. I got another relay fron Halfords and stuck that in the fuel pump relay slot and the same thing happened. I swapped the two relays around so the original fuel injector relay was now in the fuel pump slot and the new relay was in the fuel injector slot and everything seems to be working fine.

 

[Terry899]

EBay do sell some rubbish items. I bought a new map sensor and it lasted 3 weeks. Then I picked up a second hand one and 3 years later it's working fine. Map sensor faults cause all kind of issues including cutting out and hunting...