just noticed on fiat site that spec. for 1.4 16v eleganza now lists drums on the rear brakes - as opposed to discs which were listed when i ordered. i wonder which ones will arrive and what hassle i'll have to go through to get discs fitted if they're not already...
General change in spec.
- Thread starter gloop
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General change in spec.
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Disc brakes are far more effective than drum brakes.
They are also far easier to service. Say, for example, in 5 years time when the warranty has expired years ago.. you may want to service the car yourself. Changing worn discs+pads is much easier than prising off an old drum to change drum+shoes. Easier to inspect for wear too..
If you think you are entitled to discs you should push for them, but it would involve changing many parts on the car if it is possible at all. You'd probably need a printout of the original spec ordered (with discs), or a spec printout from the fiat website, to argue. It's probably not possible or to complex to retrofit discs but you could have a go at getting some more money off for the decrease in spec?
They are also far easier to service. Say, for example, in 5 years time when the warranty has expired years ago.. you may want to service the car yourself. Changing worn discs+pads is much easier than prising off an old drum to change drum+shoes. Easier to inspect for wear too..
If you think you are entitled to discs you should push for them, but it would involve changing many parts on the car if it is possible at all. You'd probably need a printout of the original spec ordered (with discs), or a spec printout from the fiat website, to argue. It's probably not possible or to complex to retrofit discs but you could have a go at getting some more money off for the decrease in spec?
i get the feeling the website's original claim of rear discs was a mistake and they've now corrected it after people complained that their car didnt come with rear discs.
disc brakes are more efficient than drums when considering a like for like pressure in the brake lines and pad or shoe surface area. however the drum shoes will have a greater surface area than the rear disc pads so they will have the same braking power (same friction for brake line pressure).
the rear brakes of a car only contribute 10% of the braking so there is no real need to have read discs, they just look better.
changing the shoes on a drum will be cheaper in the long run as rear discs and pads both need changing where as the rear drum will last for a long time. also almost all modern drum brakes have an inspection hole so you can see if the shoes are worn without removing the drum, or even the wheel if you have alloys. disc pads will usually require the wheel to be removed to assess pad thickness.
it is easier in my opinion to change drum shoes compared to disc pads, especially when a caliper requires a special tool to wind it back in, as many modern ones do, espcially rear ones (i dont know why, its a bad design if you ask me).
if you really want the rear discs you only have a chance of getting them put on if you have a copy of the website with its original claim. show fiat that website page, saved on or after the date you ordered the car, and they'll have a hard time saying no.
disc brakes are more efficient than drums when considering a like for like pressure in the brake lines and pad or shoe surface area. however the drum shoes will have a greater surface area than the rear disc pads so they will have the same braking power (same friction for brake line pressure).
the rear brakes of a car only contribute 10% of the braking so there is no real need to have read discs, they just look better.
changing the shoes on a drum will be cheaper in the long run as rear discs and pads both need changing where as the rear drum will last for a long time. also almost all modern drum brakes have an inspection hole so you can see if the shoes are worn without removing the drum, or even the wheel if you have alloys. disc pads will usually require the wheel to be removed to assess pad thickness.
it is easier in my opinion to change drum shoes compared to disc pads, especially when a caliper requires a special tool to wind it back in, as many modern ones do, espcially rear ones (i dont know why, its a bad design if you ask me).
if you really want the rear discs you only have a chance of getting them put on if you have a copy of the website with its original claim. show fiat that website page, saved on or after the date you ordered the car, and they'll have a hard time saying no.
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thanks. yep, i have a copy of the web page - at times like this i'm grateful for my suspicious nature...
dealer reckons it'll come with discs all round as i also ordered ESP on it. i'll let you all know later this month hopefully.
just in case it's drums, how much work would be involved in changing these over to discs then?
dealer reckons it'll come with discs all round as i also ordered ESP on it. i'll let you all know later this month hopefully.
just in case it's drums, how much work would be involved in changing these over to discs then?
if you're lucky the mounting points for the inside drum will be the same as the mounting points for the calipers and you can just swap the brakes over, however more often than not (almost always) this isnt the case and you need to remove the hubs from a donor car complete with brakes and replace them with yours. i guess the GP has independant rear suspension like the previous puntos, in which case its easy as you simply pull the hub off each side of the donor (nice and light, easy to fit in boot) keeping the rear calipers and discs in tact with flexible brake pipes still attached. then you simply replace your hubs with the new ones and connect the new flexi brake pipes to your original copper pipes (very rarely require modification to copper pipe connector). you'll also need the handbrake cable from a model with rear discs, i usually take it off the donor car. for cables that are in 2 or 3 parts you can get away with just taking the rear cable(s) if they can be separated. the suspension will not be affected, the springs and shocks will still mate perfectly with the new hubs. these mounting points very rarely change. its an easy job to fit them, its usually harder finding rear discs in a scrapyard. for a GP i dont know what you could use as a donor, they're too new to find in scrapayards and buying all the required parts new from a fiat dealer will cost nearly as much as my car did.
bad news - the car's arrived at the dealer's - but with drums on the back, not discs. clearly it's not the dealer's fault - they haven't changed the spec., fiat have.
now begins another battle just to get what a company has already promised to deliver. why is it so often this way?!
fortunately, i have copies of the spec. from the website, just after we placed our order, but it's an added hassle and won't do much for our relationship with the dealer...
any ideas on ways forward?
now begins another battle just to get what a company has already promised to deliver. why is it so often this way?!
fortunately, i have copies of the spec. from the website, just after we placed our order, but it's an added hassle and won't do much for our relationship with the dealer...
any ideas on ways forward?
probably easier for fiat to provide a model with discs speced from new as i doubt they will modify the brakes in any way outwith OE specs/tolerence
On all my catalogs, on the back cover printed in very small fonts there's written: "Trim levels and options may vary in response to specific market requirements. This information in this publication is purely indicative. Fiat reserves the right to make any changes to the models described in this publication at any time for technical or market reasons" . Both my Punto Mk1 and Mk2 and now my GP differed from the specs in their respective catalogs.
AGN111 said:
Ok, but when you enter into a contract to supply a good according to a specification, the law expects you to do so. Otherwise, Fiat would be free to advertise 1.4 16v Grande Puntos and supply 1.4 8vs, saying they reserved the right to make changes... I don't think anyone would be too happy with that. In the same way, discs are materially (in the legal sense) different to drums for a number of reasons.
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butler
New member
Hi guys. Brake discs all round was one of the reasons I chose the 1.4 16v eleganza as i've noticed they're much sharper than drums. They also look nicer and make the car look more 'serious' if you know what i mean. I ordered it at the beginning of August and pick it up on Sun 1st Oct, so i'll have to wait and see what i get! It's bad news because these extra features like disc brakes, auto climate control, slightly different alloys etc. are what we are paying extra for in the Eleganza model is'nt it???? or else i might of well paid less for something else.
I had noticed the spec has changed to drums on the web, but i bet Fiat's covered themselves with small print as mentioned above, however, if there are quite a few differences it might be worth running it past trading standards to see what they say, if you have printouts of the original web descriptions that is.
The 1.4 16v eleganza is also listed as having 6 gears, does anyone know if this is true as i'm now starting to become slightly cynical. help, give me some faith back GP owners please and remind me that it's a really nice car or something... tar.
I had noticed the spec has changed to drums on the web, but i bet Fiat's covered themselves with small print as mentioned above, however, if there are quite a few differences it might be worth running it past trading standards to see what they say, if you have printouts of the original web descriptions that is.
The 1.4 16v eleganza is also listed as having 6 gears, does anyone know if this is true as i'm now starting to become slightly cynical. help, give me some faith back GP owners please and remind me that it's a really nice car or something... tar.
I'm certainly also expecting my eleganza to have 6 gears. The discs are a reason I went for the eleganza too - especially when spending £500 on the ESP option. They're easier to service, better looking, give a better graduation of breaking, and above all safer. Most of all though, it's what I ordered and the eleganza specs are not listed anywhere but the web as it must have missed the brochure print run, so that is what you have to go on.
Again, I'm really disappointed by this and am frustrated that I'm now having to battle to get what we already agreed.
Again, I'm really disappointed by this and am frustrated that I'm now having to battle to get what we already agreed.
butler
New member
It seems like ages ago now, but I waited until the 1.4 16v eleganza was available so that I could get the better engine and all the extra's (like an armrest, wow). I test drove a 1.4 8v Dynamic, and although I thought it drove nicely and was impressed with it compared to my 1.2 16v clio extreme, I wanted the slightly quicker 16v version (again only going by the specs on the website). I remember that it wasn't listed in any of the brochures, only on the website. Even some of the dealers I initially went to see told me that Fiat don't do a 1.4 16v eleganza version, and they would try and flog me a different one instead. But I specifically wanted that model BECAUSE OF THE SPECS. Specs have a lot to answer for!
I wish Fiat dealers would do their homework as well as their customers. I will stop moaning now.
So anyway i'm hoping for most of the features listed to be on the car when I collect it. The car has just arrived at the dealership and i'm going to the dealer to pay for it on Monday, so I'll have a look at the car while i'm there and check out what it's got (all very exciting). I'm not picking it up til 1st Oct because I want it taxed from 1st Oct. I've waited this long so I figured I can wait another week (skinflint).
I wish Fiat dealers would do their homework as well as their customers. I will stop moaning now.
So anyway i'm hoping for most of the features listed to be on the car when I collect it. The car has just arrived at the dealership and i'm going to the dealer to pay for it on Monday, so I'll have a look at the car while i'm there and check out what it's got (all very exciting). I'm not picking it up til 1st Oct because I want it taxed from 1st Oct. I've waited this long so I figured I can wait another week (skinflint).
