General Can you easily inspect inner wings and sills externally?

[stevehg]

Looking at the various build threads (thanks to all owners for posting ), can you easily inspect inner wings, sills floor pan etc. externally without pulling up carpets, removing interior panels? Are there tell tale areas to look at for rust that would be a good indication of rest of hidden panel work?

Otherwise it looks to be ok to determine state of other panels.just trying to make a few notes before I go and look at some with a view to buy

cheers, Steve

 

[Franko500]

Hi Steve,
Front panels & f/wings you can see visually. they will mainly rust at the bottom of the lower front wings where they meet the sills.
Outer sills again check visually, but they usually rot where the sills join the floor pans, so have a good look underneath the floor. The inner sills just form a box section with the outer sill & floor pan, so if you can see holes or heavy rust on the bottom of the floor pan which is directly above the inner sill then chances are that will be rusty.
Rear arches are also prone to corrosion.
Inner rear wings can go rusty if the sunroof rail has been tampered with and the holes have not been sealed as the water goes in the holes & runs down the inside of the roof and down the inner wings.
Rear panel is not a problem as these are a bolt on part. But one thing to check is the rear box section panels either side of the engine bay.
Doors usually rust on the lower edge.


if you want to see the rusty areas on a fiat 500, check out my thread https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/345169-franko-1971-500l.html


Now that's rust girls & boys!

 

[stevehg]

Thanks Sean for the quick and comprehensive reply, very useful. Yes, I've seen your thread and your skills at open heart surgery You have my admiration.

If I can, I'm planning to get one where the bodywork is mostly ok, as since moving in to the city, I just just don't have the space anymore for this type of project. Everything else is ok though.

Thanks again

Steve

 

[fiat500]

Sean covered it well. I would be wary of any 500 unless you know it has been cosseted all its life or has been restored for or by a particularly fastidious person. Assume there will be rust even if it looks shiny. Ask for photos if it looks like or is claimed to have been restored.

I think that by now it has now been comprehensively proven that a Fiat 500 can rust anywhere. But the first places to go, if my early experiences of a ten year old 500 are valid are: the front panel where the spare wheel is, the sills and floor just inboard of them, the cross-member beneath the seats and the panels each side of the base of the front and rear screens.

Tons of images in this folder to depress you.:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/peterjthompson/sets/72157632378983654/

Useful clues here:
http://webshop.fiat500126.com/sites/51/bodycheck

 

[stevehg]

Thanks for the info and especially the links. After years of messing around with Land Rovers my senses are dulled to rust and oxidation, so hopefully I can cope

cheers, Steve

 

[fiat500]

Scroll down to theSteyr-Puch 500 Restoration. that guy certainly got to see the inside of the sills!....Incredible.:worship::worship::worship:

http://webshop.fiat500126.com/sites/233/restorations

 

[Franko500]

that all looks rather familiar!

 

[fiat500]

Looking for some bits above my garage I came across an article from a classic car magazine back in 1990.

It's a fairly big feature but here's a scan of the page about what to look for. Little changes although elsewhere it says that every panel is available apart from the roof; but that never rusts. 25 years on they do.

 

[Franko500]

Looking for some bits above my garage I came across an article from a classic car magazine back in 1990.

It's a fairly big feature but here's a scan of the page about what to look for. Little changes although elsewhere it says that every panel is available apart from the roof; but that never rusts. 25 years on they do.

You are not wrong there Peter

 

[stevehg]

Thanks for taking the time to post this up, useful for main points.

If someone has gone to this length of work recently, what are people's experience - have they generally done a good job and not cut corners? Obviously not possible to say, as it's going to be different on a case by case basis. I'm just trying to gauge if generally this sort of levels of restoration has panned out ok for most....

I was thinking that in person if the quality of the welds, paintwork etc. looks to be of a good standard, that's it's probably a good bet that they've done a thorough job.

After moving in to the city and going from a barn and two large garages to a single garage, I don't have the space for a ground up project, so ideally I'm trying to get one that's fairly sound bodywork wise.

cheers, Steve

 

[fiat500]

The images there look like they would be hard to fault and if anyone strips the car back to that level it's unlikely they will have skimped it. I am obsessed with checking 500s out on Ebay and even when restored, when you know what you're looking for you can see doors sitting proud of or recessed into the body, badly-fitting bonnets and mis-aligned swage-lines.

None of this is actually anything other than cosmetic and it doesn't mean that the car is badly restored, just that the time or skill wasn't used.

No car will be perfect, least of all mine, but if I was paying the £5000 plus that most sellers want, I would be a very critical buyer.

 

[Bambino]

I guess I was a bit lucky with my 500F as it had been looked after and garaged for most of its Australian life. For the 15 years prior to my purchase, it had been housed in the back of a large weather and animal proof shed pending a restoration that never happened. Nevertheless it still had rust in the outer sills, floor, front panel below the battery, around the windscreen and rear screen and around the rear lights - all of which was fixed.

As far as I know, the only way that you can get a good look at the sill structure is to remove the outer sills. If there is any external evidence of rust in the outer sills, this should be done as a matter of course. Luckily, replacement parts are still easily available.

Unless you can find a recently restored car with pictorial documentation of the process, the only way you can be sure of the finished product is to strip it to a shell and start from there. With any old car, the bodywork is usually the most complex and expensive part of the restoration but getting it right is fundamental.

Chris

 

[timgarman]

Had both my sills replaced by my panel beater. When he took them off there are a number of structural pieces inside and some of these had rusted, so he rebuilt them before welding new sills in and painting up with some anti-corrosion paint.
Tim

 

[stevehg]

Thanks for all of the great info everyone. I think I'm suitably armed enough to make a good as possible sensible decision about the bodywork, and then totally ignore it by getting carried away with a certain 500 and thinking "Oh I can easily fix that"

Cheers

Steve