Technical brava 1.4 12v '97 gasket cover cylinder head

[vabi]

Dear Fiat forum,
my brava odometers already 161.000km, from the previous owner, the last timing belt changing at 60.000km, so i already buy the timing belt set (contains timing belt and tensioner) and scheduled to do it next week. but, after looking at haynes repair manual, to change the timing belt, needs to remove also the cover cylinder head to see the marking of top position/reference position of camshaft.

my question is: if i must buy the new gasket cover cylinder head? can i using the old one again? it made from rubber or paper? or, can i use the old one and added silicon sealant?

because to order the new parts, i need to order it on line from italy, (i live in switzerland, its difficult to find a parts shop for this brava) and it will be take 1-2weeks.

regards,
erwin

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,
I would take care on removing the old gasket, and re-seal it with gasket + sealant,

the worst case is it will dribble oil a little,
BUT it will save you 2 weeks waiting - BIG risk of cam-belt failure in this time,

Charlie

 

[vabi]

yes, i know,i need to change it soon, thats why, when i bought this car last month, i ordered the timing belt immediately......but i didnt order the gasket cover cylinder head, because based on my experience when i change the timing belt on my previous car: suzuki baleno and toyota corolla, its no needed to remove cover cylinder head just to see the 1st cylinder top marking......the notch are on the camshaft pulley......

but in this brava, the notch are on the camshaft itself ......OMG

 

[vabi]

Dear FF,
just change the timing belt and tensioner today.......
at the begining, i made a mistake, the tensioner are not push the belt well,
so when the engine started, there are a heavy rattle noise.

so i opening the timing belt cover again and retight the tensioner untuil the "arrow" directed to the small hole/dot as the procedure. i didnt change the camshaft or crankshaft pulley position or remove the belt again.

but after that, the engine cannot be started again.....

anyway, spark plug and their cable are already connected well.

some one, please help me......

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,
I don't fully understand your - "rattle sound",
it may be that the timing belt jumped teeth and there has been contact inside the engine ( pistons and valves?),
you say you tightened the tensioner? - have you checked the timing marks since..??,

Charlie

 

[vabi]

yes, but the timing are still ok.....(i make my own marking at crankshaft and cam shaft pulley when the 1st cylinder on top)

after try to start, the engine working, but there are rattle sound from the tensioner. so i stopped the engine and re-tight the tensioner, without removing the timing belt again (i not remove the lower timing belt cover when im retight the tensioner). and after that, i check again the position of both pulley and its okay.....

but since that, the engine cannot be started again.......

i already check the battery, coil packs, spark plug, and ignition cable by multimeter.....all of them are okay.....

also when the sparkplugs opened, its wet by gasoline.....so it must be there are a gasoline in the cylinder.

it seems there are no signal from ecu to activated the coil and ignite spark plug

 

[vabi]

just checkin again the tdc position marking from flywheel "window"and comparing it with the camshaft pulley position, yes, its 1 step/notch missed, i release the tensioner, remove the timing belt on the cam pulley part adjust the cam pulley as the marking (1notch), attach the timing belt again at cam pulley, push the tensioner until tensioner arrow marking sign directed to the dots as procedure and tightening it....

and the engine still cannot be started.....hiks.......

 

[Adrian Bravo]

Hey Vabi, Welcome to the forum.

I think the next logical step is to do a compression test. That is the easiest way to be sure the accident with the tensioner and belt slipping has or has not caused damage to the valves.

I know on 1.4s when the valves have been damaged sometimes the cam followers snap in half. and you can see that just by taking off the rocker cover but a compression test is the next step.

 

[vabi]

Hey Vabi, Welcome to the forum.

I know on 1.4s when the valves have been damaged sometimes the cam followers snap in half. and you can see that just by taking off the rocker cover but a compression test is the next step.

yes, today i opened the cylinder head cover and check if there are a valve "shorter" than the others, visually all of the valves seems ok.....i dont know if the valve maybe deformated just a view milimeters, its not detected visually.

now im looking for the compression test gauge that i can borrow to check my car :shrug::shrug::bang::bang:

 

[vabi]

Dear Adrian, Do you know, the ribe bolt size securing cylinder head? because i need to bought it.......now, i just have a ribe bit number 5, 6, 8, 10

 

[Adrian Bravo]

Hey Vabi, I can not be sure exactly but my set has 12, 13 and 14 so it must be one of those. I changed a cylinderhead on a 1.4 before with my set of ribe tools. My set does not have an 11.

Make sure you use a big enough size smaller ones can seem fit ok but the right one will always be best.

 

[vabi]

finally, i change the whole cylinder head from auto demolizioni (junk yard), and now the engine working very well.....thanks all for your support.....

from the old cylinder head, i found only one valve which has been broken/bended, inlet valve at cyl no.1.......
@Adrian bravo : its ribe no.13. i just have ribe no 12 and 14. at the begining a try with key no.12, but it makes few of cyl head bolt little bit broken. so at the end, i machining the ribe key no.14 becoming no.13 by lathe machine.....

 

[bluejohn125]

I'm glad your problem is fixed...it is ironic that you changed the timing belt so that it would not snap and damage your valves, and you actually damaged them by changing the belt!

I am surprised that an error of 1 tooth can cause a collision, I would expect only bad running and maybe a low compression.

Hopefully the new head is in better condition than the original... maybe less km?

It is good that another 1.4 keeps running..

 

[vabi]

no, because when i change the timing belt, the tensioner are not so tight pushing the belt. thats why at the begining the engine can run. but after several minutes there are a little impact between valve and piston because of deformation of the belt. i calculate and simulating it, totally it miss around 4 teeth because of belt deformation.

now its better, may be because when i removing the cylinder head, i cleaning everything, valves, piston and manifold from the carbon deposit