Blues and twos @ 120mph for training....!?

[the mk1 kid]

Hi guys,

I just had a text from my ex house mate who's going through his paces training as a copper - he was going around the by-pass at 120mph with the blues and two's going for 30min all in the aid of training today!

He isn't going in the vehicle devision, nor intending to, so how on God's green earth do they justify doing that - who needs training to sit in a fast car!?

Your thoughts?

Tom

 

[The Beard]

What Force is he in? With our lot there is a self-imposed 20mph over the prevailing limit for Section Officers, in other words Astras, Transits and the like.

I must admit it does seem a bit pointless if not going into Traffic, and, generally speaking, you can't transfer to a specialist department for the first two years of your service.

 

[the mk1 kid]

I dont to drop him, or anyone in it Beard, which is why i didn't name the city/force.

He is definately not the type to tell porkies either, so i imagine its someone bending the rules by all accounts then!

Cheers

Tom

 

[Jai]

having gone though the training, and put it to use a few times, you are acutely aware of the speed you are using, the conditions, the car, other road users etc. the call you are going to is set by the information received, the way you get there is down to you, can you justify your drive? i would suggest that if your vision is clear, the conditions and traffic are right you can shift on, obviously if you're on a high street on a saturday afternoon, you adjust accordingly.

information is the overiding factor in everthing you do, taking it in, processing it, and using it to make your decision on how to proceed, vision up, looking ahead working back, and adjusting to take into account what's going on.

if you fail to, don't forget, it's your own license you are driving on, and if you come a cropper, just like any other member of the public you can be gripping the rail, and find your actions under more scrutiny too.

 

[Ffoxy]

having gone though the training, and put it to use a few times, you are acutely aware of the speed you are using, the conditions, the car, other road users etc. the call you are going to is set by the information received, the way you get there is down to you, can you justify your drive? i would suggest that if your vision is clear, the conditions and traffic are right you can shift on, obviously if you're on a high street on a saturday afternoon, you adjust accordingly.

information is the overiding factor in everthing you do, taking it in, processing it, and using it to make your decision on how to proceed, vision up, looking ahead working back, and adjusting to take into account what's going on.

if you fail to, don't forget, it's your own license you are driving on, and if you come a cropper, just like any other member of the public you can be gripping the rail, and find your actions under more scrutiny too.

Luv it! Lol!

 

[ChrisUK]

Luv it! Lol!

 

[ThisBitterPill]

just like any other member of the public you can be gripping the rail

And if they put you away, gripping the soap I should imagine....

 

[pk090]

i can supply rope at discount price good strong stuff and waterproof no soap dropping incidents if you fail to grip the soap...

 

[smokeyjoe03]

Right regular Del Boy we got here.

 

[the mk1 kid]

having gone though the training, and put it to use a few times, you are acutely aware of the speed you are using, the conditions, the car, other road users etc. the call you are going to is set by the information received, the way you get there is down to you, can you justify your drive? i would suggest that if your vision is clear, the conditions and traffic are right you can shift on, obviously if you're on a high street on a saturday afternoon, you adjust accordingly.

information is the overiding factor in everthing you do, taking it in, processing it, and using it to make your decision on how to proceed, vision up, looking ahead working back, and adjusting to take into account what's going on.

if you fail to, don't forget, it's your own license you are driving on, and if you come a cropper, just like any other member of the public you can be gripping the rail, and find your actions under more scrutiny too.

..... so can they legally drive at 120mph with the bells ringing and the blue lights flashing in the middle of the day on a dual carridgeway for a sustained period of time, or not?

Tom

 

[Jai]

..... so can they legally drive at 120mph with the bells ringing and the blue lights flashing in the middle of the day on a dual carridgeway for a sustained period of time, or not?

Tom

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DC14A39A-0B1C-4E14-AF54-2B565947F3E9/0/08501.pdf

section 3.63 is of intrest here:


3.63 Requests for Exemptions From Prosecutions for Excess Speed and Allied Offences

Legal Position

3.63.1 The law provides a statutory exemption to allegations of excess speed for driving for police purposes under certain conditions.

3.63.2 This is outlined within Section 87(1) of Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 which states “No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

3.63.3 Case Law has given guidance as to the extent of the protection offered-“The immunity granted by this section is not so wide as to cover any use of a Police Vehicle by a Police Officer in the course of his work, but if in a particular case, solely to enable a Police purpose to be performed, or solely to ensure that a Police purpose is not frustrated use must be made of a vehicle and that use would be hindered by observance of the speed limit, the immunity would be wide enough to cover the case”- Aitken v Yarwood 1965.

however 3.64.4 says:

On occasions, often due to circumstances outside their control, police drivers will find themselves considering contravention of other signs and regulations where no statutory exemption exists, such actions could result in criminal proceedings. No circumstances can justify the contravention of any legal requirement, whether exempted or not, which would endanger other road users or the Officer(s).

accountability and transparency dictate that all actions must be justified, yes you can do the speed, but can you explain why? was it really required? no call is so urgent as to lead to injury or death in trying to get there. The Beard, as a much more experienced driver/trainer is probably better qualified to comment specifically on such matters, but generally the policies are the same across the board

 

[the mk1 kid]

Hi Jai,

Good post, thank you for the info.

Point 3.63 is interesting, and i take on board it doesn't have to be an emergency (not that it clearly states that, but thats the gist i get) to necessitate excessive speed, but how can the officer in charge justify driving non traffic officers (not currently or 'to be') at those speeds in the name of 'training': training for what?

Sounds a little like 'we can get away with it so lets have some fun' to me, but i could be wrong?

Cheers

Tom

 

[Jai]

Sounds a little like 'we can get away with it so lets have some fun' to me, but i could be wrong?

dunno about other services, but our vehicles have a data recorder on board, which store a surprising amount of info. the are dip sampled, in addition any tickets that come in off gatsos are checked back against call logs to see if that vehicle was assigned. then of course if you do get involved in a collision, the traffic collision unit takes over and fully investigates it, which can lead to prosecution (there have in recent times been several high profiles instances of this)

at the end of the day, the driver has to weigh up several factors, the call, the car, the conditions, their abilities, etc. and you could always think of a PLAN:

Proportional
Legal
Accountable
Necessary

not knowing your friends circumstances of being in that car at the time, it would be difficult to comment, other than if he isn't training for that specialism, the driver would find it very hard to justify their action.

if you push your luck, on a long enough timeline, you will come a cropper, it's inevitable.

 

[the mk1 kid]

I agree entirely Jai.

When he told me i replied, cool sounds like fun, did you catch them etc..

'No it wasn't a pursuit, it was 'training' lol'

Tom

 

[zanes]

if you push your luck, on a long enough timeline, you will come a cropper, it's inevitable.

This. Just hope when this happens he/she/it doesn't take someone else with them.