I have the difficult choice of deciding between a 2011 BJ TA with about 9.5 K miles up or a brand new 1.2 Sport in Electroclash, both are similarily priced. The BJ is stuffed with extras - climate, asr, interscope, xenons, parking sensors, self dipping mirror, the Sport is standard. I drove the BJ and was very impressed, got 41mpg on a mixed test run of about 6 miles, trip showed 34mpg when i started out so economy is not remarkable but fits in with whats been reported here, it is good fun though. The paintwork on the BJ is my main concern - already after a year it has a few scratches - probably no more then any other car its just that the matte black is very unforgiving and shows everything up, theres also a scuff on the front valance which is obvious enough but otherwise the car is perfect. The Sport on the other hand is in standard livery but nothing wrong with that, brand new with 5 year warranty (2 years left on BJ) and has no longterm paint work concerns, theres nothing like the comfort and security of a new car, economy will in real world driving be better then the BJ and I'm guessing may be worth more then the BJ down the road. The extras on the BJ are nice for sure but probably not really necessary, I'm trading down from a 3.2 Merc so economy is a priority although either car will be a big improvement! I've driven a 1.2 plenty of times so am familair with performance versus the BJ. If the BJ was in Crossover black then no contest so its really the paint and second hand versus new for the same money that are the deciding factors, over to you guys..........
General Blackjack TA or 1.2 Sport???
- Thread starter Mercky
- Start date
Currently reading:
General Blackjack TA or 1.2 Sport???
TrevC
Established member
You've probably nailed most of the points that would be raised here, Mercky. The TA will give you more for your money, but like you I would be a bit concerned about the paint. See if anyone responds with their experiences - my TA Lounge is BNW so I can't comment. You've done all your homework - go with your instinct!
Disclaimer: This will be controversial but it is a personal opinion!
I think the 1.2 is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't spend that amount of money on a 500 with what is probably the weakest, least entertaining engine in the range.
It suits for tootling about the city and suburbs but the 'fun factor' lies in the TA and MJ power units from the current crop.
I think the 1.2 is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't spend that amount of money on a 500 with what is probably the weakest, least entertaining engine in the range.
It suits for tootling about the city and suburbs but the 'fun factor' lies in the TA and MJ power units from the current crop.
Errrr no.
You yourself state the the 1.2 is fine for tootling about the city
Wiki says
So would it therefore not be sensible to conclude that a 1.2 is quite a good choice for an engine for a 500 considering that you say it's fine for pootling around the city and the fact that the 500 is a city car? Oh and it's £1200 cheaper than the Twinair.
:chin:
The fun factor argument is somewhat misleading. As long as your chosen 500 has the right interior, wheels, colour, additions and the engine is not completely unsuitable (ie a 1.2 for someone who lives in the highlands and commutes to London 2 times a week or a multijet for a granny who travels down to the shop around the corner to buy her xenophobic newspaper once a week) then you're going to have fun with your car.
The vast majority of people don't choose their engine to entertain them, they choose it because it's going to be an adequate powerplant for the car.
Personally I'd go for the 1.2 in this situation every time.
Agreed - the vast amount of people use there cars foir tootling around the city and suberbs - including me! However that doesent mean you cant tootle around in a TA either. Maxi, out of interest, have you driven a TA?
I'd say buying the TA BJ is the riskier option & it will likely depreciate more, cost more in servicing & repairs & use more fuel over the next 3yrs than the new 1.2 - plus if the worst happens & the paintwork does need attention, you'll be wishing you'd bought a more amenable colour all the way to the bodyshop & back.
1st500 is right in what he says if you're the kind of person who simply must have a sporty & responsive engine to enjoy a car, but the other 90% of us who just want an economical car that stands out from the pack will still have heaps of fun in a 1.2 500.
But IMO you've summed up the arguments for & against better than any of the responses so far (this one included!) & only you can decide which one is most right for you.
1st500 is right in what he says if you're the kind of person who simply must have a sporty & responsive engine to enjoy a car, but the other 90% of us who just want an economical car that stands out from the pack will still have heaps of fun in a 1.2 500.
But IMO you've summed up the arguments for & against better than any of the responses so far (this one included!) & only you can decide which one is most right for you.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
I remember someone saying that if they were buying a 500 now they would buy a TA but I can't remember who said that.
Whatcar did a summary (don't really agree with it) but I was surprised at the winner and some have referred to the writers in this magazine as those who don't like cars ! Attachment below...
Looking at current price on a BJ TA (Click here) on a 2010 BJ TA at £11,289 they appear to be holding their value. If you compare a 1 year old BJ TA as against a new 1.2 Sport where both are bought at the same money - in 3 years time IMHO the BJ TA will have lost less money and will possibly be worth more. The price of BJ TA in Ireland is a frightening figure when all the 'extras' mentioned by Merkcy are added - so it is possible that a 'bargain' could be got.
It comes down to if buying a matt black is what the OP wants. Key factor is that a TA is a more exciting drive than a 1.2. Despite the extra running costs - if it 'holds your attention' and you keep it longer that's cheaper than giving a 1.2 the 'chop' in 1-2 years time and buying a different car.
IMHO the Matt black is a less risky option than buying Pearlescent white as regards maintenance but its the combination of the BJ & TA that's throwing a 'wobbler' here.
I wonder is it worth doing a poll similar to AlexGS ? :idea:
http://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/fiat/fiat_500/review_fiat_500_blackjack_4868.jhtml
Attachments
Last edited:
I remember someone saying that if they were buying a 500 now they would buy a TA but I can't remember who said that.
Hence why I said in this situation
If it were a choice between our current car and an identical one with a TA engine then it'd be TA all the way
3 years and 36k miles later my car still looks really nice when it's clean and has a coat or two of wax. Will a blackjack still look that nice after 3 years? Probably not.
Get the blackjack!!
This thread can now be closed
This thread can now be closed
If they're discounting the Blackjack havily as you suggest, you have to ask yourself why........it's not because they're selling well?
IMHO oddball colour schemes and special editions have great novelty value when launched but can date quickly. I wonder how easy it will be to get shot of a 3 year old matte black or barbie pink car? Those of you who are old enough may remember the early 90's fad of purple cars which attracted a premium when new but were actually worth less 2nd hand 3 years down the road.
I suspect that the 2nd hand market for matte black is much more limited than a 'proper' black car.
IMHO oddball colour schemes and special editions have great novelty value when launched but can date quickly. I wonder how easy it will be to get shot of a 3 year old matte black or barbie pink car? Those of you who are old enough may remember the early 90's fad of purple cars which attracted a premium when new but were actually worth less 2nd hand 3 years down the road.
I suspect that the 2nd hand market for matte black is much more limited than a 'proper' black car.
why not buy the car because you like it rather than worrying about deprication ? It's not exactly an expensive car, i've lost more in 4 years on two so called premium/residual proof cars, a Golf and A3, combined they cost me just under 16k.
Yes the matte black might be an odd choice, but it can still be repaired and you can still protect it, swissvax do a wax for it. As for unpopular colours... remember when white was unloved
Yes the matte black might be an odd choice, but it can still be repaired and you can still protect it, swissvax do a wax for it. As for unpopular colours... remember when white was unloved
I dont think they are discounting that heavily its more that they were overpriced in the first place. As I said to Michael the fact that there is a big scuff on the front valance and it remains unrepaired sort of sais it all - if it was a normal colour it would have been repaired prior to sale (its for sale by a dealer). Its interesting and somewhat predictable that all the TA owners say buy the BJ and the 1.2 owners say buy the 1.2! To me its all down to the paint - if it was a normal colour with all the extras and a TA I'd go for it over the 1.2 but thats not to dismiss the 1.2. In reality maybe I should hold out for a TA with a good spec but unfortunetely the choice of cars in Ireland is very limited patricularly second hand, to get what you want which in my case is possibly a TA Plus in Black or Electro I'd have to order new and they're big bucks here (€17K)
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
Climate €295
ESP €560
Electrochromatic auto mirror €150
Bi-xenon €1,015
Interscope €455
Parking sensors €255
Climate – always liked this and makes the Air con more efficient.
ESP is a good safety feature particularly with the ‘soft’ suspension set-up on the TA. ASR might be useful to minimise wear on the front tyres.
Auto Mirror – ‘heard’ that it doesn’t re-act fast enough but it’s ‘cheap’
Xenons – looks the business and would definitely help are-sale.
Interscope – possibly appeals more to a younger person.
Parking sensors – not needed but might stop another scratch on the rear bumper – great for tight parking spaces.
If I was buying new possibly the only extra that I would buy is the Climate.
Comparing the price of a new 1.2 Sport with metallic this costs €15,380 (€14,945 +€435).
Attachments
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
TAs are very thin on the ground here.
Ask the garage if you can 'borrow' the car for a w/e. You'll be amazed at the re-actions you'll get with it. IMHO the Blackjack is the most manly 500 of them all particularly with the TA engine. If you had the keys for a 'safe bet' 500 compared with the BJ TA I would imagine BJ TA would win everytime. But I can understand that you might opt for the more sensible option on your first 500.
Why not if you like the blackjack say you'll buy it if the front valance can be painted to your satisfaction?
If they do a good job then its yours. If they fail, then your no worse off and it'll prove that they can't match the original finish.
If they do a good job then its yours. If they fail, then your no worse off and it'll prove that they can't match the original finish.
ahmett
Prominent member
How much does it cost to repaint the car with whichever color you want?
I assume from BlackJack you need to paint it white/black primer first and then add on what you want.
A full respray in a different colour would be uneconomical, plus would hit resale value. I would assume a crash repaired car after such work and would walk away no matter what the seller said.
I do know of a fella though who was insistent on an brand new £80k Range Rover painted in orange like the G4 models. the factory wouldn't/couldn't do it so he had a full engine out respray
More money than sense!!- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
Here it would cost between €2-€3K for a professional respray in Metallic black. Might be a bit cheaper in an easier colour like BNW. Matt black should be cheaper than Pearlescent. One of the ups side of Matt is that it probably hasn't got the fade characteristics of Red or the way that FW goes creamy on the plastic bits.
A full respray in a different colour would be uneconomical, plus would hit resale value. I would assume a crash repaired car after such work and would walk away no matter what the seller said.
I do know of a fella though who was insistent on an brand new £80k Range Rover painted in orange like the G4 models. the factory wouldn't/couldn't do it so he had a full engine out respray
On the last car that I had the side re-sprayed (FW) I had to show proof that there was only a nick on the rear arch and luckily the canvasser who was acting on behalf of the buyer had seen the car before it was done.
In the case of the Matt black if you decided to spray it Metallic black you could get away with leaving the inside areas the original Matt colour. There's a trend on the recent TAs and Guccis where there are not matching the outside colour with the colour on the dash board. Unsure if you would need to change the registration documents since it will still be a black.
Just try to imagine yourself having one and then another car... then try to imagine if you haven't had each one in turn... which mind picture would make you sadder? Go for that one!
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
The last dealer that i dealt with when I returned to buy the car told me that he had sold it to someone else. And then told me that 'he was only joking'. TBH I wasn't too impressed and so when he came to putting the deposit down I was quite insistent on ensuring that all the conditions on which I was buying was written down on the purchase order book. As it happened it didn't mean much because the paint wasn't properly touched up and the spark plugs weren't change. I would have been better off going for the discount and not the 'freebies'. Also, there was no codes for the Key or the Radio and after misplacing the spare key had to re-order a new one.
It came to a pricely sum of €224 for the 'cheap' one . So I suppose 'they' got their own back on me after all.
