Technical Black smoke

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Technical Black smoke

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Sep 4, 2024
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Hi, I just bought my Panda 4x4 1988. We drove it home for three hour. The car had been standing still for a long time. The former owner took good care of it and placed:
•New fuel tank + new fuel pump + new fuel filter.
•New oil filter and oil.
•New air filter.
•New distributor cap and rotor.
•New vacuum advance unit.
But just before we got home the car was loosing power and it gave a puff of black smoke and it just stopped. Since then I replaced the sparkplugs and checked the fuel lines if something was blocked. The fuel lines where working. While changing the sparkplugs I noticed that the was a bit of oil on them and that they where sort of black. When I try to start it, it sometimes manages to sort of start but stops after 10 seconds and it doesn't sound like it supposed to. So fuel goes through it seems like there is ignition but it won't really start. Does anyone have suggestions.
 
Hi, I just bought my Panda 4x4 1988. We drove it home for three hour. The car had been standing still for a long time. The former owner took good care of it and placed:
•New fuel tank + new fuel pump + new fuel filter.
•New oil filter and oil.
•New air filter.
•New distributor cap and rotor.
•New vacuum advance unit.
But just before we got home the car was loosing power and it gave a puff of black smoke and it just stopped. Since then I replaced the sparkplugs and checked the fuel lines if something was blocked. The fuel lines where working. While changing the sparkplugs I noticed that the was a bit of oil on them and that they where sort of black. When I try to start it, it sometimes manages to sort of start but stops after 10 seconds and it doesn't sound like it supposed to. So fuel goes through it seems like there is ignition but it won't really start. Does anyone have suggestions.
It sounds like it is flooding/ too much fuel.
Does it smell like an old car with the choke out trying to start?
Sometimes if it has a carb and you take the air filter off you can see down the carb and if it's flooding it should be obvious.
Also check the choke flap is not stuck, assuming you didn't drive all the way home with the choke out;)
 
Hi, thanks for the answer but it's an 1000ie it has injection so no choke 😅
MAF sensor?
Any chance of a code read?
I had a customer with a fuel injected Nissan Micra around that age which flooded due to a faulty temp sensor some time ago.
Previous owner didn't damage MAF sensor or wiring when fitting the air filter etc.?
 
Can a damaged MAF sensor cause the engine not to start?
If it is causing excess fueling maybe.
I appreciate different but on one diesel vehicle I had terrible black smoke and previous owner had disconnected the MAF sensor, I tried a new one, but in the end found the wiring plug to the MAF had poor connection in wires just before the plug which only showed up by probing the loom. Fine after I fixed that.:)
 
it will be the Bosch injection system.. they do not have MAF sensors, only an vacuum sensor built into the throttle body. the thing i guessed is the issue is the idle control actuator. they are common to fail sadly when they are old. i will have a look to see if i can find a part number for it.

the fiat Uno uses the same system.

ok depending on which one you have here is the ePER parts list for the throttle body. theres 2 types:



the component i think you need is called "ELECTRIC MOTOR" on them lists.

sadly i know about this system as i fit it to my fiat panda 4x4. i got the whole system (and still have it) from off a Fiat Uno. the Uno was scrapped because of an engine running issue.. which i found out to be caused by this actuator.

the Bosch system is the same used on some older small engine sized VWs and also Citroen/Peugeot. the intake manifold is identical to ones used on the old mk2 VW polo however i cant confirm the bolt pattern on the cylinder head side. the one i have, does have WV stamped on it!

let me know if my guess was correct!

edited due to not reading everything!

also check for vacuum leaks too! if you have the "eco box" try bypassing it for now by plugging the vacuum line from the vacuum advance actuator, directly into the carb's vacuum hose barb
 
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it will be the Bosch injection system.. they do not have MAF sensors, only an vacuum sensor built into the throttle body. the thing i guessed you unplugged was the idle control actuator. they are common to fail sadly when they are old. i will have a look to see if i can find a part number for it.

the fiat Uno uses the same system.

ok depending on which one you have here is the ePER parts list for the throttle body. theres 2 types so you will have to compare which is yours:



the component i think you need is called "ELECTRIC MOTOR" on them lists.

sadly i know about this system as i fit it to my fiat panda 4x4. i got the whole system (and still have it) from off a Fiat Uno. the Uno was scrapped because of an engine running issue.. which i found out to be caused by this actuator.

the Bosch system is the same used on some older small engine sized VWs and also Citroen/Peugeot. the intake manifold is identical to ones used on the old mk2 VW polo however i cant confirm the bolt pattern on the cylinder head side. the one i have, does have WV stamped on it!

let me know if my guess was correct!
Is that anything like VW and Merc in the late 70s had Bosch Jetronic?
I had a Merc 350 Auto Saloon that was a nightmare from cold and no one had any information on it, then I found VW used it and was able to test the cold start device with an Ohm meter, took a chance and spent around £135 odd from Merc dealers and cured the problem. This was back in the 1980s , so was a fair bit to spend on spec.:)
On that the fuel pressure was altered when cold by this unit on the inlet manifold to make it run richer according to the temp.
 
thankfully not the same system.. this is only really made for small engines.
it takes it's injection timing from the coils negative side.. using the distributor as the ECU's trigger. where normally on later Marelli ECUs they use a crank sensor.
the fuel pressure in this system only runs at 0.8BAR. it is automatically regulated mechanically and not temperature dependent. this does have a temperature sensor built into the throttle body but it only measures the intake air temperature.

keep in mind on this Bosch system, the exhaust sensor can also cause poor running. i think its only a 3 wire sensor 2x white wires for the sensors heater and a black wire for the reading. any 3 or 4 wire exhaust sensor will replace it. you will just have an extra grey wire. its an extra earth wire.. if you want just connect it to a ground however it may not be necessary.
it will not stop the engine from starting though as this sensor is not used on start up as it would be cold. they only take a reading once they get hot.

come to think of it, if that sensors heater has failed that may cause issues. on the 2x plugs, undo the larger plug with 2 (white) wires and resistance check them on the exhaust sensor. if you get open circuit with no resistance the sensor would need to be replaced as the ceramic heater inside the sensor has failed. this fault does not throw any warning lights sadly! fixing this issue will stop it from running rich for a longer length of time while the engine warms up.
 
it will be the Bosch injection system.. they do not have MAF sensors, only an vacuum sensor built into the throttle body. the thing i guessed is the issue is the idle control actuator. they are common to fail sadly when they are old. i will have a look to see if i can find a part number for it.

the fiat Uno uses the same system.

ok depending on which one you have here is the ePER parts list for the throttle body. theres 2 types yours is the top one being the 999cc FIRE 1000ie:


vvv not this one as its for the non-FIRE engine vvv
^^^ not this ^^^
the component i think you need is called "ELECTRIC MOTOR" on them lists.

sadly i know about this system as i fit it to my fiat panda 4x4. i got the whole system (and still have it) from off a Fiat Uno. the Uno was scrapped because of an engine running issue.. which i found out to be caused by this actuator.

the Bosch system is the same used on some older small engine sized VWs and also Citroen/Peugeot. the intake manifold is identical to ones used on the old mk2 VW polo however i cant confirm the bolt pattern on the cylinder head side. the one i have, does have WV stamped on it!

let me know if my guess was correct!

edited due to not reading everything!

also check for vacuum leaks too! if you have the "eco box" try bypassing it for now by plugging the vacuum line from the vacuum advance actuator, directly into the carb's vacuum hose barb
Wow thanks for the feedback. So it's this part I need to replace: https://www.ricambio.co.uk/throttle-body-stepper-motor-classic-fiat-panda-uno-lancia-y10
 
it looks to be correct. though the 2 part numbers differ on both styles of throttle bodies (one is 9945024 and one is 9942142) they both appear to be the same electric motor.
my advice would be to examine which throttle body looks most like the one you have, and go with the part number to that one.

it looks like you should be able to tell them apart by the place the vacuum lines plug into it. one has 2 outlets, and one has 3.

hope this helps!

also if you take your motor apart you will see it will be all burned out inside.. my one was. this is caused by the little switch on the end of the plunger that presses on the throttle cable winder. the switch fails making the motor keep twitching or trying to return back and never turning off so it stays on trying to return back when its already at the end of its travel.
 
So I checked out the throttle body and now it seems I have the one one the second parts pdf you send me. So I googled the electric motor and I think I found the one I need. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276515474795 Do you think so too? If so I'm going to order it and maybe also change the lambda sensor because that one also is involved in the air fuel mixture. And I'm going to change the rocker cover gasket to prevent oil leaking into the sparkplug holes. I'm not a seasoned mechanic, so wish me luck 😁
1000040014.jpg
 
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Hi I'm replacing the valve cover gasket. The engine block was black and greasy. And the sparkplugs were also black, maybe from oil leaking to in the holes.


I just cleaned the whole engine bay. I figured that I would be easier to see if the gasket would leak again. It's my first time replacing a gasket. But it seemed a simple task. So I just took te cover of and I was just wondering if this is the way it supposed to look down there.
1000040606.jpg
 

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it will be the Bosch injection system.. they do not have MAF sensors, only an vacuum sensor built into the throttle body. the thing i guessed is the issue is the idle control actuator. they are common to fail sadly when they are old. i will have a look to see if i can find a part number for it.

the fiat Uno uses the same system.

ok depending on which one you have here is the ePER parts list for the throttle body. theres 2 types:



the component i think you need is called "ELECTRIC MOTOR" on them lists.

sadly i know about this system as i fit it to my fiat panda 4x4. i got the whole system (and still have it) from off a Fiat Uno. the Uno was scrapped because of an engine running issue.. which i found out to be caused by this actuator.

the Bosch system is the same used on some older small engine sized VWs and also Citroen/Peugeot. the intake manifold is identical to ones used on the old mk2 VW polo however i cant confirm the bolt pattern on the cylinder head side. the one i have, does have WV stamped on it!

let me know if my guess was correct!

edited due to not reading everything!

also check for vacuum leaks too! if you have the "eco box" try bypassing it for now by plugging the vacuum line from the vacuum advance actuator, directly into the carb's vacuum hose barb
Hi, I have changed the electric motor today but it stil won't start. Do you have some more suggestions?
 
Hi, I have changed the electric motor today but it stil won't start. Do you have some more suggestions?
It may sound silly but do you have a good constant fuel supply at pressure, not a dodgy relay or fuel pump?
I know yours is petrol , but some years ago I bought a Grande Punto 1.3MJ non runner, long story short but the previous owners garage had caused extra damage by trying to tow start causing timing chain to slip on free wheeling crank pulley.
However I located the original reason why it wouldn't start was the signal wire from the ECU to the fuel pump relay had corroded through inside it's plastic coat roughly 10mm from the ECU connector plug.
Another one, is it actually petrol in the line, did you have to top up on journey home?
 
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