Technical Big After Take Off

[bzxhms]

Big Bang After Take Off

Hello everyone. Last night took my baby (500D) out for a spin. I was sitting at the traffic lights on a bit of a hill. I went to take off and BANG. No drive at all in all gears. Got help to push to side of the road. I managed to get the car home after having to pay RACV $300 ouchhhhhhhh.
Anyone out there have any ideas on what has gone wrong with the gearbox or has anyone had this happen to them. Hoping someone can help.

Thanks in advance.

 

[tjmra]

Gotta get in before the convict does.

In my limited experience it may be a simple as a hub failure.

On an F, at the wheel end of the driveshaft there is a flexible coupling that connects the driveshaft to the actual hubshaft. I think th D has the same sort of setup but the coupling is different.

If the coupling or the bolts let go on either side I think you loose drive to both wheels. You can check by throwing yourself under the car and pushing it away from you. If the wheels turns with its corresponding shaft turning less or not at all then you have a problem. (you could also jack on side of the car up and spin the wheel to see the same thing, be careful though). If this is it, have a close look at the coupling and the bolts.

After that it is over to the rest of the guys out there as it may be a shaft, the box itself or the clutch.

We can now sit back and wait for confirmation or correction.

Either way please post a photo of the car. (Won't help us but makes us all happy.)

Joe R

 

[bzxhms]

Hey Joe

Thanks for your reply. I will do some checks over the easter long weekend.

Here is the link to some pics.

https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/269423-ok-here-mine-50-years-appart.html

 

[Bambino]

Gotta get in before the convict does.

Yeah right ...... it was only a loaf of bread

I guess I'd jack it up and have a good look around first. See what's loose, what's poking out that looks wrong, what rattles, what spins when it shouldn't and what doesn't when it should. You may see the problem straight away.

I'd be interested to hear what it turns out to be, because catastrophic failures like this are not that common.

Chris

PS: Joe, I saw your car last week. Looking good

 

[tjmra]

Not fair, two 500's.

As Chris requested, let us know what you find. (And given he has a red one as well I would try what he suggested first!)

Chris,

oh so close but at the same time so far. At least we are getting to the end.


Regards

Joe R

 

[bzxhms]

Re: Big Bang After Take Off

Hey Guys, I found the problem. Jumped under the car and had a look around. I gave the shafts a little bit of a tug. The driver side shaft poped out of its boot at the wheel end. I have attached a photo.
Now, I've been looking on ebay and see but there is nothing in Australia. I have been in contact with a dude in italy from Ebay. He is selling a complete kit, 25mm shafts with all the bits and peices. He has asked for my engine number to see if this kit will fit. Do you guys think I will need to stick with the original diameter or will I be able to upgrade to the 25mm. Any idea where I may be able to buy in Melbourne?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Bambino]

bzx,
Nasty - that'll certainly produce a very loud bang
I got my 25mm half shaft kits from The Spare Place in Adelaide (08 8212 3505) - $146.50 (incl GST). Give them a call and let them know what happened and what you want to do. They are nice guys, give good advice and have all the bits you require.
You'll have to pull out the diff/gearbox to fix the problem although it's just as easy to take out the engine/drivetrain as a unit.
Let us know how you go,
Chris

 

[bzxhms]

Called The spares Place today and the news is not good. The larger diameter axles will not fit the 500D. They dont even have the stock standard ones. They tell me i will have to replace the lower control arm to that of an F model. Has anyone out there done this or does anyone have any other ideas???????

 

[Bambino]

Sorry - I forgot that you had a 500D

Mr. Fiat (Atlanta USA) has the the 500N/D axle kits in stock for $USD210.00 plus postage.

See - http://www.mrfiat.com/part.php?item=Cars/Fiat/Fiat 500/Transmission/Fiat500NDAxleKitNew.html

I've bought from him before and he is quite reasonable on prices and postage. Orders usually arrive about 10 days after payment and he takes PayPal.

Chris

 

[bzxhms]

Thanks for the info, I found this on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fiat-126-CAMBI-SINCRONIZZATO-PER-MODIFICA-500-D-F-L-R-/170631456200?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item27ba6d65c8

Will this fit my 500D. I see the starter motor position is different. I am not sure if the clutch configuration of the 500D will suit this type of box.
Will these drive shafts bolt straight on??

For the price I think if good if it will bolt straight on, what do you think.

 

[Bambino]

I looks like a synchro box out of a Fiat 126/Niki 650. If so, the halfshafts will be too long as the rear track on these cars was wider than on the 500s.
Also, as these gearbox/diffs are quite heavy, it may end up costing you just as much again in postage to get it to Australia.
I must admit that I would just replace both the original axles with new ones - after all the originals did last nearly 50 years
Chris

 

[nzbambina]

I don't know if this is of any value but the go-to guy for Fiats in New Zealand is a gentleman named John Collins.

For his website, google John Collins, Mt Eden, Fiat - that'll get you there.

There's not a huge amount of information on his site but he's pretty good for sourcing parts.

It may be a little bit cheaper shipping across the ditch than from the other side of the world.

 

[bzxhms]

Hey nzbambina,

thanks for the info. I will shoot an email to him to see if he can help with some parts. I'm looking at putting a new clutch kit and clutch shaft in while I have the gearbox out.

Thanks Again

 

[bzxhms]

Hi everyone, the new shafts and clutch kit have finally arrived.
Now, I know i need to remove the box to replace these parts. i'm a little concerned with the drive shaft replacement. How hard is it to do? Do you need special tools. I have read in the service manual that the preload needs to be reset after dismantle using special tools. The manual also talks about the final drive gear adjustment. This sounds quite complex. Any advice???

 

[Bambino]

I must admit that anything that requires shimming, load or backlash adjustments I get my friendly local mechanic involved. Saves on tears later.

However, have a look at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricambifiat500/sets/72157615692546231/

for a nice pictorial guide.

Lots of helpful photos and even a few of food .....

Chris

 

[tjmra]

Had a look at the tutorial, how many have followed it to the letter only to have oil flowing over their workbench.................

I thought I was the only one to use rubber gloves when pulling things apart. So easy afterwards and handy if you don't want to leave incriminating finger prints on the bread van.

I'm with the convict on this one, setting shims and preloads is OK but only when they don't involve the engine / gearbox.


Joe R

 

[bzxhms]

I think you guys are right, This may be a job for the experts. I'm in Melbourne, can you guys recommend any mechanic that will do a good job and not rip me off. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Bambino]

Can't help - sorry. I'm up on the Sunshine Coast, north of Brisvegas.

My advice in Melbourne would be to stay away from any Mechanic who supports Collingwood ....

Chris

 

[Damon500]

I'm in Melbourne and have rebuilt plenty of 500 and 126 gearboxes- diff preload (or Collingwood allegiences) are not an issue if you are just replacing driveshafts.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss.