General Autocar:

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General Autocar:

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Merry Christmas! Autocar have pronounced the Panda as one of their top 12 cars of 2012:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/top-12-cars-2012-fiat-panda

Fiat’s boss has called the new model “the official car for doing whatever the hell you like”, and that sentiment rings true again and again. Certainly, the year ends with us having driven objectively better cars, but very few were as attainable or as easy to enjoy in a crowd as Fiat’s future classic.

(y)
 
Interesting that one of the responses to the article mentions that how much he wants to love the Up family, it just isn't possible.

I agree; the Up is more dreary, flat and lifeless every time I see one, and I admire good design, usually. Unfortunatley the Up is typically VW boring, in spades.

And I've driven both: the Panda (TA) is infinitley more fun, and more comfortable behind the wheel, so that's it as far as I'm concerned (y)
 
It's interesting that it was completely contrary reviews on whatcar, and on autoexpress they were tied. I guess this shows about how much you can trust review sites, no more than some other random person opinion...
 
I agree; the Up is more dreary, flat and lifeless every time I see one, and I admire good design, usually. Unfortunatley the Up is typically VW boring, in spades.

+1 (y)

I've added a comment to the Autocar article, and I agree with you. If you are spending up to £10,000 on a brand new supermini, you want to get some entertainment value from your budget car. The Fiat entertains me even when it's parked outside. Don't judge me, but I think I'm quoting Jeremy Clarkson when he was talking about another Italian car, but the Panda was clearly designed by people who had just come back from a very long, enjoyable lunch. The Up! was designed by people who never see their children because they work until 10 every night.

It's interesting that it was completely contrary reviews on whatcar, and on autoexpress they were tied. I guess this shows about how much you can trust review sites, no more than some other random person opinion...

Once you've spent some time with a car (certainly more than a journalist can get on a press junket) you start to forget the metrics and start to appreciate the overall sense of ownership. Paying for a car also makes a difference, of course. Three months into ownership I love my Panda (even though I'm not amongst the hoards of FF members who have a TA under the bonnet) - it's just a fun car to own. Motoring is damned expensive these days, so being able to enjoy it makes a big difference :D
 
:yeahthat:

Couldn't agree more.

I remember the Up review which commented, in passing, on the fact that the soft suspension ( and hopeless ground clearance) meant that it could bottom over speed bumps! Erm: that was the signature comment as far as I am concerned, and it corroborated what I thought about the general lowness of the car.

The Up is refined, and boring as hell.

The Panda is differently refined, and fun, and better suspended for British roads. You sit higher too ;)

Win for the Panda then...
 
(Although I really dislike the new Panda) I totally agree with the sentiment here - you have to welcome seeing your car across a car park, or take it for a drive just for the sake of it.
 
The Up is refined, and boring as hell.

The Panda is differently refined
Panda is truly very fun to drive and great-looking car, but its anything but refined (at least not in a sense what auto-reviewers mean by "refinement").
Note that for many people that kind "refinement" is what equates to "boredom" though.
 
It's refined in the way that it feels well put together, has relatively little wind or road noise, and has a very composed ride. The old Panda never stopped jiggling, the new one is far more comfortable. The seats are excellent and the driving position better - for me - than the Up. All these things constitute refinement. The handling prowess - quick steering and darty cheerfulness - are the clinchers.

The Up is softer and the weak engine makes less noise, and a less interesting noise it has to be said, and, er... that's about it! It has less grunt, it has a poorer seating position, the gear lever is not perfectly placed and the visibility to the front isn't as good as in the Panda either.

When I got into the Panda for the first time and drove it, immediately after the Up, the Panda felt like the better quality product. The detailed design of the colourful interior helped to enhance the quality impression after the austerity sans charm clinicity of the VW, but the Fiat also felt more solid and better screwed together.

Refinement is to some degree subjective, and the VW is certainly quieter pootling about, but the trade off in terms of charm and enjoyment doesn't feel like refinement, it feels like dullness - not quite the same.
 
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It's refined in the way that it feels well put together, has relatively little wind or road noise, and has a very composed ride.
It has neither. "Relatively" to what, to old Panda? Maybe, but amount of noise is high and ride is pretty firm. It still a middle-class city car, which Fiat now for some reason priced almost as premium one. At least with 4x4 you can kind of see what you paying for.
 
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Relative to other cars in the same bracket. The ride is very composed and comfortable - and so, refined - and the noise is similar to the Up. The ride is certainly a bit firmer than the Ups, but the trade off is better handling and less wallow, and better performance over speed bumps; bottoming out isn't a very 'refined' thing for a car to do ;) The TA has a specific warble, but this is a delightful characteristic which helps make the car come alive, as a small car should. I understand the 1.2 is conventioanlly quiet, again for a small car.

I've driven Corsas and Polos, and Clios, and the Panda is as good as, or better, than all these in the refinement stakes and, as I keep saying, more fun than any of them. This matters.

And I haven't driven any city car that is more refined, according to my values, or better in any tangible way that matters to me.

I do agree that the pricing is too high however.
 
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Relative to other cars in the same bracket.
Same bracket? What kind "bracket"? I could get a relatively fresh and "loaded" Mini for that kind of money, which will be tons more refinement, handling & quality - everything basically, except ability to fit as big stuff in the boot ;)
Heck, I bought a merely 1 year top-spec Auris Hybrid for less money than I initially pondered to spend on new Panda.
 
Minis are low and a design horror inside, and can be very unreliable.

And I'm talking about new cars, not second hand.
Auris hybrid: fun? I don't think so...

We'll just have to accept that we have different opinions: I have no problem with that :devil:
 
Sorry, but you again just arguing for the sake of it. Mini's are "low"? They same as Panda, about 14cm ground clearance. And if you think that BMW reliability/quality is really below Fiat's? Wow. I think its time for me to stop arguing with you.
NB probably it was stupid of me in the first place, you don't come to car-specific forum to try to pinpoint bad sides of this particular car.
 
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It has neither. "Relatively" to what, to old Panda? Maybe, but amount of noise is high and ride is pretty firm. It still a middle-class city car, which Fiat now for some reason priced almost as premium one. At least with 4x4 you can kind of see what you paying for.

A middle-class city car?!!

What on earth are you on about?:spin:
 
Lol, obviously I meant "car class" (A class), not social class, though it did come out silly as a result :p
 
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But Minis are lower than Pandas; they are much harder to get in and out of.

And I don't want you to argue with me, I just want you to understand. But, I don't always quite know what it is you are trying to say and I can't understand why you suddenly looked for cars in a different class, and second hand, to compare with the Panda.

That's all :D
 
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