Technical are fiat 500 manual gearbox bearings an issue?

[SquareWheel]

I’m in Australia and looking to buy a Fiat 500 1.2 manual.

The two Fiat specialist mechanics I’ve spoken to have told me that the gearbox bearings in the 1.2 can be a problem (which here in Aus costs ~ $4000 to fix), but the 1.4 has no problems because it uses angular contact bearing(s).

While general web searching hasn’t indicated that this something to be overly concerned about, i wanted to specifically ask here.

To what extent *should* I be concerned about the bearings in the 1.2?

If I should be, what percentage of cars have the problem, or how many miles / km’s might it take before the problem appears?

Is it possible that the 1.2 in Australia gets a different gearbox that is problematic?

Thanks.

 

[puntodeltathema]

I would doubt that the Aus gearbox is different. Input shaft bearings can wear but I don't think it is a massive issue given the number of cars we are talking about here (millions) and the number of happy 1.2 owners the world over.... So I wouldn't say it was a reason not to buy one. Plus the 1.4 gearboxes tend to have weak synchros in my experience (and you would probably have a higher chance of an engine head gasket going!!).

Plus if people are really charging AUS 4000 for bearing replacements I suspect a number of us British mechanics will be flying over with a stock of bearings and cashing in...

Nick

 

[rmjbn1]

Hi and welcome

I've changed the input shaft bearing and seal on my 1.2 Panda (same gearbox) at 100,000 miles, whilst changing my clutch. Parts were £6 (10.5AUD), but the gearbox has to come apart: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/clutch-slip-2004-panda-1-2.483277/#post-4587726

I'd agree the input shaft bearing seems to be a weak point on these transmissions, but I don't think it's a deal-breaker. There are probably plenty rattling around perfectly happily with a worn bearing.

It'll be a bit noisy and can let oil leak into the bell-housing, but I doubt it could reach the clutch.

If it is really bad the bearing can break up and loose ball bearings can do some damage to gearbox internals.

I'd advise to wait until the clutch needs doing, then assess the input shaft for play. Should be an extra couple of hours for a workshop that's prepared to do it.

There are a couple of clues if the bearing is worn:
It'll rattle in neutral and go quiet when you press the clutch as the input shaft stops turning
There's an inspection hole on top of the 'box. It'll be dirty inside, but if dry powder then all well, if it's wet and oily with the distinctive smell of transmission oil, the bearing is worn and deformed the seal, causing a leak.

 

[SquareWheel]

... don't think it is a massive issue given the number of cars we are talking about here (millions) and the number of happy 1.2 owners the world over.... So I wouldn't say it was a reason not to buy one.

Most reassuring to read Thanks Nick!

and ... if you did choose to come over with those bearings i'm sure the Australian Fiat community would welcome you with open arms *thumbs up*

 

[SquareWheel]

Hi and welcome
There are probably plenty rattling around perfectly happily with a worn bearing.

LOVE the name of your Panda

Cheers for all the excellent info - will be filing this away for future rattle diagnostics. I'm a bit ashamed to admit the above all sounds a bit scary - it's been many a year since I was under the bonnet of my 1969 .... hmmm is it permissible to mention the name of another (European but) non Italian car here with out getting verbally lynched

*whispers* peugeot 404 shhhhh

 

[SquareWheel]

FANTASTIC! Thank you both - my comfort level with becoming a Fiat 500 owner is back where it should be .... now i just need one that ticks all my boxes to be listed for sale in my area

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

I suspect the reality here is that 500 gearbox is virtually unchanged from the 1990's fiat punto..mated to very similar FIRE motors

Modern Forum traffic.. 2010 on

has been all Modern punto.. with a poor GeneralMotors gearbox M32.. and even that wasnt a disaster to fix

Charlie

 

[rmjbn1]

*whispers* peugeot 404 shhhhh

The 404 is a handsome old barge, absolutely permissible as far as I'm concerned I have no brand loyalty, I've only had a FIAT for the last four years.

Before that it was 90s Mazdas, before that 70s & 80s Citroens which gave me many perplexing hours under bonnets chasing elusive electrical gremlins.

I was half expecting the same with my Panda, but thankfully not OK it's all very basic and there are a few cheap components that can pack up with age, but the 1.2 FIRE is a tough little gem, they're well built and to my relief galvanised so I don't have to fight losing battles with rust any more - but I guess that's not too much of an issue down under

 

[jaahn]

FANTASTIC! Thank you both - my comfort level with becoming a Fiat 500 owner is back where it should be .... now i just need one that ticks all my boxes to be listed for sale in my area

Hi Squarewheel
I am in Australia also, Newcastle, and have just done a gearbox input shaft bearing and seal on my 500. It was a semi auto as are most of the Fiat500s here. IMHO the problem with the gearbox is due to poor driving habits. People who have previously owned or learned on hydraulic automatics have the bad habit of stopping on a hill and holding the car just using the accelerator. With a clutch this can lead to overheating the input bearing and seal. Instead they should use the hand brake or the hill holder brake function that will hold the car stationary for a bit to enable you to get on the accelerator and start. It is a common problem with all automated manuals including DSG types in other makes.

I did the job on my DILs car because of the silly cost and actually finding a mechanic around here who would do it. Not too hard to do. No real tricks in that box. All information is supplied on this forum or Utube !

Note that when the front seal leaks due to a slack bearing, the oil does go straight onto the clutch plate via the throwout bearing support tube. Hmm not brilliant design but it takes a while to get bad.
Jaahn

 

[SquareWheel]

Hmmm the answer really does seem to come down to how the car is driven ... bit of an issue when buying a used car, but hey *shrugs* insert your fave cliche HERE

cheers for all the input folks