Technical Alternator on 1.9 8v

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Technical Alternator on 1.9 8v

Daveof49

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Hi all

Alternator light on and flat battery so have been looking through the forum for alternator replacement for my 1.9 8v Croma but struggling to find anything relevent to the 8v; seems to be mainly 16v.

Anyway, has anyone changed the alternator on an 8v or is it the same as the 16v. What is involved? Seems, from what others have said on the forum, a right sod of a job to do.

Have been quoted £ 97 plus vat from my local motor factors for a replacement although I need to take the old one in to make sure it is the same. This sounds cheap compared to prices others on the forum have been quoted. :(

Thanks for any input.
 
No its not the same as a matter of fact its much easier hence not much info on the forum. On the 16V the alt is packed in the back and down getting much more heat and failing more often than on the 8V. 97 quid sounds decent for GB but it always best to shop around. Vectra C alternator is identical so check that too.
 
Tried to get the alternator off tonight - what a nightmare. Have removed the short lower bolt and loosened the longer top bolt but the alternator shows no sign of loosening, its absolutely rock solid and I cannot see a third bolt. Tried to replace the lower bolt and put it all back together but the lower bolt will not find the thread in the bracket. The alternator has obviously moved a fraction. Please can anyone help.

At this stage I haven't loosened the belt tensioner. How is this done on the Croma and then retensioned.

If I manage to get it off does it have to be dropped down as there does not seem to be enough space to lift it upwards?

I feel a big garage bill coming - again :cry:
 
I did my 16v myself. I can't remember how many bolts, but the belt tension will be holding and/or straining it.

Take front-right wheel off and open the hatch inside the wheelarch. Pull the tensioner back by turning it with a spanner. I can't remember which direction, but it should be intuitive. It needs a good shove. After you've turned it sufficiently, there's a locking hole you can stick a drill bit in to hold it back. Then the belt will be completely slack.

After fitting new alternator, put a new belt on before taking the tension off the drill bit with the spanner and gently release the spring pressure back onto the new belt.
 
My alternator at £ 97 plus vat does not now exist, (surprise surprise) and the best quote now is £138 plus vat only the supplier can't seem to get one at 140 amp. Me thinks these are recon units:eek:.

Another supplier has quoted £199 plus vat for a new Denso unit (140 amp) which is the same make as the faulty one I have just taken off!

From what I can gather the alternator fault on the Croma is common and if the Denso unit is an original part fitted from new - which I believe it is, is it just daft to replace with the same rubbish?:confused:

If anyone has experienced the same problem what did you eventually fit?

Despearation may well force me to get a Denso unit but any thoughts/experiences anyone?
 
I replaced my alternator on my 8V two and a half years ago with a brand new unit from Hillmart alternators (www.alternatormart.co.uk), I can't remember the output spec details but it cost £168 delivered next day and came complete with pulley and no exchange necessary, it was their part reference (AL12120), doing it I relearned every swear word and invented some new ones, plus you need arms as long as Mo Farrow for this job. The alternator has proved fine so far, I hope I am not tempting fate saying this!
 
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I also got mine from Alternator Mart. I can't remember the make, but I do remember for certain that it was a different make to the original, as my thinking was the same as yours, so I rang to check before ordering.

At the time they gave a discount if you know the part code, rather than make/model of car. It's probably worth ringing them - they'll probably beat any other price.

Mine's still working too.
 
Ordered alternator from alternatormart. Should receive tomorrow for fitting at the weekend, weather permitting. Seem good people to deal with and the prices seem quite fair compared to others.

Not sure now whether to change the cambelt and water pump as the car is already partly stripped down. 55000 miles on the clock -2006 6 years old. Cant make my mind up. Read the cambelt should be changed after 5 years. Any thoughts anyone?

Found excellent photo sequence in the forum (Dave 30/7/11) but I would have to buy the Locking tools for the Crank and Camshafts.

Anyone know of the best place to purchase beltkit, waterpump and tools etc?

Might start a new thread for this.:)
 
If you are at 55K miles and 6 years then you are really due for a cam belt, tensioner, static idler and water pump change.

Depending on your tolerance of time and patience and octopus limbs then you may find splitting the alternator and belt change into two separate tasks. Clearly doing the whole lot in one go is ideal but doing the alternator + new belt will not make the cam belt change any easier. The alternator belt can be taken off (one access is gained) in 20 or 30 seconds!. Access (wheel off and inner wheel arch cover plate removal) will take around 10 to 15 minutes.

Then cam belt change is a bigger task that you should ideally schedule and prepare for. As you a grouned with no working alternator then personally I would solve this problem first. Also while you are at it you can have a good look at what is involved in the cam belt change.

As for cam locking kit the are available for around £60 to £80 pounds, possibly even less less.

Sealey VS4850 Diesel Engine Setting/Locking Kit - 1.9 8/16V, 2.4 10/20V Engines

Second hand or rental will come a lot cheaper.

As for belt kits and pumps then any good motor factor should be able to supply.

For my Croma 1.9 16V 150BHP (engine code 939A2.000) I used:
Gates KO15623XS - Cam Belt Kit - Belt, Tensioner, Pulley
FirstLine FWP2027 - Water Pump
Gates 6PK1413 - Auxilary Drive Belt


Other options available.
 
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Thanks for your comments S130.

Much food for thought. Think I may well leave the cambelt for a month or so and get the car back on the road.
 
I need to get my timing belt changed on my 8v 1.9MJ.

Is there a particular brand of parts I should use or would I be OK with the eurocarparts kit, for example?
 
Sorry, just got back from a few days away.

I've not got any specific info on the Eurocarparts kit for your 8v 1.9MJ and have not had time time to look/research myself. Have you tried contacting them and asking what their kit comprises and what make the parts are? As I'm fairly sure Eurocarparts are only suppliers of parts and not manufacurers then they will be sourcing parts from well know OEM manufacturers such as Gates, GKN, etc. etc.
 
Euro Car Parts also don't seem to know what a Croma is. They sold me a battery that they confidently stated was for my make and model. It was nothing like the right size.
 
Having ordered my replacement alternator from Alternatermart, whose service was very good and can recommend them. The only thing is that it is the same make as the one I took off i.e. Denso.:( I suppose if it lasts another 5 -6 years the rest of the car will have probably fallen to bits by then!

I had a bit too much spare time at the weekend and decided to see what went wrong with the old alternator so I stripped it down and found that one of the three diodes had completely burnt out. They are seated on an aluminium plate just under the plastic casing. It just makes me wonder if this is the cause of all the problems with these alternators why dont the manufacturers just uprate them. Thought I would take a photo of the burnt diode and post it but ran out of spare time!:D
 
If this is the same A127I(R) as I posted on some other thread. It is the heat or corrosion that kills it. Similar unit is used on Marea and the spares for the diode bridges are same.
Mine on marea had corroded under the aluminium plate and charged pretty weak. Some time after that it just stopped as corrosion caused the voltage to spike inside the alternator and fried one of the diodes.
The thing is that even if the diodes do not fail, slipring or brushes will wear and require replacing, and to change the slipring you need to take the diode assembly off, if it works, just clean the housing to ensure good contact.
And then there are the bearings itself that are not everlasting, I have the types listed in the other thread for the A127I.

I bought new bearings, bridge (marketed for Denso, but fitted no problem on Magneti Marelli), slipring (also Denso) and brushes. Later I found the pressfit diodes at local shop for 3€ a piece and they were rated at 30A if I recall correctly.

There are 6 diodes on 3phase, 3 for ground and 3 for supply (and one inside the Vreg)
 
You must be a motor or electrical engineer surely.

To strip down an alternator do you not need special equipment to separate the parts without damage.

I merely smashed mine with a hammer to split the parts - it was going to the tip anyway:eek:.

I did not think the separate replacement parts for alternators were even available. Were did you source them?
 
Automation.

autospark.eu has good selection. Also you can get the parts code from the site and search the bay for them, found whole diodebridges for 18.95 pounds back then, but they wouldnt ship to finland.
The separate diodes were just from local electronics shop.

You dont need special equipment, for desoldering the field windings I just used knife and small blowtorch.
The casing comes apart when you beat the slipring end bearing while holding the other half of the housing (when screws are out, only the "pressfit" bearings keep it together, the slipring one is in a plastic jacket so it is easier to take off first).
The pulley nut was lefthanded on mine, long allenkey, socket and pliers opened that no problem.
Actually did this twice as damaged my first slipring during install so it exploded on a motorway ramp.

Local shops were asking around 200e for alternators and wanted the old back. Repair only cost around 70e (cant remember exactly).

Here is the other thread.
 
I bought a new alternator for mine. I tried to take the old one apart to have a look or repair it as a future spare, but I snapped some links while taking it apart.

Any chance of a guide on how to take it apart safely and replace the parts you mention? This could be a huge money saver.
 
Well, after the plastic has been removed from the backside, remove all the screws, used a 1/4 set for all. Vreg lifts off and youre left with the bridge.
Here is my old corroded rectifier, you can see where the field windings have been soldered. You need a powerful soldering iron or as I did, a small blowtorch/jet lighter. Heat it up and open the the tabs with knife/screwdriver and free the windings, then you can lift the bridge off. Clean the windings from excess solder so they fit trough the casing (if it has never been repaired, it might not have solder so you can just pry them open).

Now you need to test that the field winding are not shorted to the housing or rotor. Multimeter on ohms range should not show anything between them and the case. Measure the that the wires are not burnt out, should be almost short circuit between the phases.
Check the rotor coil too, the resistance is higher on that.

Now you know the alternator is good for repair.
Remove the nuts for the housing and you could try prying it open with knives/screwdrivers or an axe. Failing at that, grip on the other half of the alternator (slipring end) with something, put stuff trough the ventilation holes if necessary, dont use too much force or the rotor will touch the stator as the case deforms. Tap on the slipring end of the rotor and it should start coming apart, tap on the joint between halves if the look corroded to free them. Watch the wires.

If the slipring end bearing was left on the case, just tap it off, otherwise you need a puller.
Pulley off and hit the rotor off the case and remove the bearing.

Replacing the slipring, is it too worn? 1 or 2mm gone isnt too much and it should still be usable for quite a while. The slipring has two similar clamps as on the rectifier, might not have solder on them at all, if it has no solder and you are not going to replace the slipring, resolder the joints, open them up and you see the wire is almost gone (as in my case only 1/3 of the original diameter, you can take extre wire if necessary from where the coil attaches, scrape it clean and solder).
Break the old one and take it off, clean, put some oil on the shaft and tap the new ring inplace and solder it.

I used dremel with wirebrush to clean the casings where they join, meet the engine, and where the diode bridge sits on.

Install new bearings 6303 2RS C3 and 6003 2RS C3, pulley end to the casing and then put the rotor on (use pipe or similar when tapping the rotor down to not damage the new bearing.
Install the slipring end bearing on the rotor and put the other half on, watch the wires, and tap it on, make sure the plastic sleeve is right.

Then its pretty straightforward reassembly, solder new brushes to the Vreg if necessary

This for the A127I (should apply to A115 too, not sure about bearings), but alternators arent that much different from another.
 
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