Technical After connecting 220v inverter directly to fuse box all electric went down.

[Communicator]

May I compliment @bugsymike on his summation of the chip location, and supporting evidence. Perhaps I could correct one small detail. The chip is not completely inert. When the key is turned, power is supplied to the chip via a radio signal. The chip then responds by sending back it's code. This system is similar to supermarket security tags, and was previously described on this forum by @Anthony489

I am speculating that the difference in chip mounting / location, may at least in part be due to the UK insurance industry not accepting the Fiat alarm system for security. (This reservation may have changed.) As a result most UK converted RHD motorhomes are supplied with a seperate alarm system with associated fob. Hence the vehicle has a mechanical key containing the chip, and the separate alsrm fob, which usually also connects with the central locking. LHD conversions imported into the UK may have the combined fob, as described by @the green vanper.

 

[bugsymike]

Perhaps I could correct one small detail. The chip is not completely inert. When the key is turned, power is supplied to the chip via a radio signal. The chip then responds by sending back it's code. This system is similar to supermarket security tags, and was previously described on this forum by @Anthony489

Thanks for explaining, it gives me a better understanding of the operation.
On the older Ivecos, they didn't have key fob button locks etc. being just work vehicles and on the key it'self there was a small plastic square which could be prised out and then the immobiliser chip would simply drop out of the key, where as the ones in the Ducato seem to be bonded to the circuit board inside the key fob. Without breaking one I assume there is no soldered electrical connection to any pins on the chip, if that is the case then a programmed chip could in theory replace a original if there was any practical reason to do it.
A similar age Nissan Primera I had used the same principle.

 

[the green vanper]

@bugsymike As far as I know this kind of transponder is still used in some Peugeots (my friend had a 2009' 107, then switched to 2006' 1007), and Fiats (ie. Stilo). But I can't remember it in my 2000' Alfa Romeo 156 I know that there were other Fiats using the same keyfob (ie. the 2007' 500), but again, I have no idea if they have this kind of transponder, or the electronic PCB board with two separate chips soldered. Same principle was used in Fords, although the form of the transponder was different (it was a glass tube with some electronics inside). They must have been inducted. I had it in my hands a couple of times (I had a Mk7 Escort Cabrio till last summer).

As @Communicator stated, it can be also a local / regional limitation. And I totally believe him, because I know that the factory Sevel alarm is also very limited. I was desperately trying to find one to install and I finally did, but the guy who was selling them explained to me, that their only advantage is that they are operated from the original keyfob They are CAN connected, so they use signals from all doors' and bonnet's locks. I'm not sure if there was even a possibility to add a single extra line to it or not. Which is not enough for normal, other than commercial use. In Poland they are installed only by courriers (as the companies require them), other people buy external alarms (with separate fobs), to which several lines can be fitted (so they have two fobs). I'm still trying to evaluate how much lines I will need before I buy the appropiate one But this time Communicator gave ME an idea to get the simple key without the fob (Fiat part number 71776162) and get a compatible alarm system with a fob that I could program to open / close the central locking system with

Due to the fact that both immobilizer and central locking can be programmed with MES only (for the independent transponders a RFID device is needed), I'm almost sure that the european version of the x250 keyfob has the immobilizer chip soldered to the board. The board is 2 layer, so I cannot see much, as the chip lays directly on the board.

I managed to read the letters and numbers printed on the transponder. It says EPCOS 502364A000 45905 ZDFDZ. At the right end there is also another number, most probably 0035 (or 003S or 0036). The internet says it's a transponder coil https://www.ebay.com/itm/302366657506

So, we all were right Photo attached.

It can be that the solder is only transmitting power. Or the power is inducted by the elements on the side.

I won't try to take it apart, I still plan to use it as a spare. Or not, I'm no longer sure

I assume nlousky took out from the 'new' keyfob the whole PCB board and put in the 'old' one when he was trying to start the engine. As I wrote before, the keyfob programming option in MES has two independent steps: key (which I understand being the immobilizer) + keyfob (for central locking). As he confirmed the van was opening and shutting down properly, so I assume the electronics of the 'new' keyfob is at least partially functionnal.

That gives us at least 3 possibilities:

The keyfob comes from a much older / younger model (I remember ordering my PCB board I had to precise the model + the year). And this can be tricky, because there's a little possibility that Sevel was putting different solutions for different brands (Fiat, Peugeot, Citroen), but most of the people assume all is interchangeable. I've also read on the Polish Fiat forum that transponders used in Stilos have to be pre-coded. So the transponder can have a wrong code and can be unusable for the nlousky van.

The PCB board or the transponder itself are simply broken.

The BCM / ECU / started / keyfob set that nlousky bought was damaged = not working at the moment of taking out of the donnor van.


I hope that nlousky will be able to take the starter connectors out and connect everything to the 'new' one to start the engine

 

[Communicator]

Hi guys!

A few updates - as you suggested - I switch the chip in the old key with the donor chip.

1. All the electric in the car works (mirrors, windows etc)

2. The remote buttons also works and close the car with no problem

3. The only problem (and the big one haha) is the car won't start. I attached a video so you can see, disregard the "slipping sound" I think it probably the starter is slipping or something like that. It's a problem I already know about a while ago and after a few starts the car supposed to start - at the end of the video you can watch a "full start" with no slipping and the car didn't start (skip right to 1:07). I think its something that related to "matching the Ecu" ? I already order a TOPDON phoenix diagnostics (also for my other cars) and I think If I would make the matching process with the diagnostic tool it should work right? anything I'm missing here?

Again, thank you for all of you and your kind help! I was hopeless and thought about going to Fiat licensed garage which will probably rip my bank account off

P.S I saw the IMMO light is on with switch on but it turn off when I start to turn the engine and it turn on again after I stop. I don't know if it's normal I didn't pay attention to that when the car was in working condition

The immobiliser light should go off before you start to turn the engine. If you turn the engine with the light on, the engine should not start.

 

[Communicator]

@bugsymike As far as I know this kind of transponder is still used in some Peugeots (my friend had a 2009' 107, then switched to 2006' 1007), and Fiats (ie. Stilo). But I can't remember it in my 2000' Alfa Romeo 156 I know that there were other Fiats using the same keyfob (ie. the 2007' 500), but again, I have no idea if they have this kind of transponder, or the electronic PCB board with two separate chips soldered. Same principle was used in Fords, although the form of the transponder was different (it was a glass tube with some electronics inside). They must have been inducted. I had it in my hands a couple of times (I had a Mk7 Escort Cabrio till last summer).

As @Communicator stated, it can be also a local / regional limitation. And I totally believe him, because I know that the factory Sevel alarm is also very limited. I was desperately trying to find one to install and I finally did, but the guy who was selling them explained to me, that their only advantage is that they are operated from the original keyfob They are CAN connected, so they use signals from all doors' and bonnet's locks. I'm not sure if there was even a possibility to add a single extra line to it or not. Which is not enough for normal, other than commercial use. In Poland they are installed only by courriers (as the companies require them), other people buy external alarms (with separate fobs), to which several lines can be fitted (so they have two fobs). I'm still trying to evaluate how much lines I will need before I buy the appropiate one But this time Communicator gave ME an idea to get the simple key without the fob (Fiat part number 71776162) and get a compatible alarm system with a fob that I could program to open / close the central locking system with

Due to the fact that both immobilizer and central locking can be programmed with MES only (for the independent transponders a RFID device is needed), I'm almost sure that the european version of the x250 keyfob has the immobilizer chip soldered to the board. The board is 2 layer, so I cannot see much, as the chip lays directly on the board.

I managed to read the letters and numbers printed on the transponder. It says EPCOS 502364A000 45905 ZDFDZ. At the right end there is also another number, most probably 0035 (or 003S or 0036). The internet says it's a transponder coil https://www.ebay.com/itm/302366657506

So, we all were right Photo attached.

It can be that the solder is only transmitting power. Or the power is inducted by the elements on the side.

I won't try to take it apart, I still plan to use it as a spare. Or not, I'm no longer sure

I assume nlousky took out from the 'new' keyfob the whole PCB board and put in the 'old' one when he was trying to start the engine. As I wrote before, the keyfob programming option in MES has two independent steps: key (which I understand being the immobilizer) + keyfob (for central locking). As he confirmed the van was opening and shutting down properly, so I assume the electronics of the 'new' keyfob is at least partially functionnal.

That gives us at least 3 possibilities:

The keyfob comes from a much older / younger model (I remember ordering my PCB board I had to precise the model + the year). And this can be tricky, because there's a little possibility that Sevel was putting different solutions for different brands (Fiat, Peugeot, Citroen), but most of the people assume all is interchangeable. I've also read on the Polish Fiat forum that transponders used in Stilos have to be pre-coded. So the transponder can have a wrong code and can be unusable for the nlousky van.

The PCB board or the transponder itself are simply broken.

The BCM / ECU / started / keyfob set that nlousky bought was damaged = not working at the moment of taking out of the donnor van.


I hope that nlousky will be able to take the starter connectors out and connect everything to the 'new' one to start the engine

As I have highlighted in bold above "I managed to read the letters and numbers printed on the transponder. It says EPCOS 502364A000 45905 ZDFDZ. At the right end there is also another number, most probably 0035 (or 003S or 0036). The internet says it's a transponder coil https://www.ebay.com/itm/302366657506"

I also made an internet search with a similar result, that it is an inductor. An inductor is a coil, not an RFID device.
The basic key fob uses an encapsulated RFID chip. I am now wondering whether the combined fob uses one of the visible chips to store the immobiliser code as well as the alarm code. If EEPROM is used, the code could perhaps be changed via Multiecuscan.

My apologies to Netanel, as we seem to be moving off topic.

 

[the green vanper]

If EEPROM is used, the code could perhaps be changed via Multiecuscan.

There is a possibility to reprogram the set key - BCM. But I have no idea on which side the changes are registered. I will post in an indefinite future screenshots of programming the key (immo) in MES.

A little bit of off topic, but how much knowledge Everyone will use it nlousky included

 

[Cool breeze]

Had a similar problem, engine cranked normally and immo light remained on. Cause was no power supply to the ecu. Replaced the 7.5A ecu fuse, problem solved. May be worth checking.