Technical 59 Plate Ducato Dash Failure

[IhatemyDucato]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and I could really do with some help.

The dash on my 59 plate Ducato MoHo is playing up. The analogue clocks - speedo, fuel & temp gauges, and rev counter - intermittently stop working whilst driving for no apparent reason. A few miles later, they kick back in and then they fail again. Maddening!

I've removed, checked, cleaned and replaced ALL the fuses (cabin and under the bonnet) and the problem is still there. I sent the instrument cluster to Cartronix, and they report no faults.

I'm at my wits ends. Any suggestions?

Andy

 

[AsdaPricey]

Hello @IhatemyDucato
Firstly - cracking user name !!

Ok - you’ve checked fuses and the cluster has been checked which is a common fault.
Did you replace the fuse in case there is a hairline break that only manifests when passing current?

Has any other work taken place on the vehicle just prior to the fault?

Have you read any fault codes created as a result of the intermittent fault? This may guide you to see what stops communication with what…

As it happens whilst moving, could it be a broken wire that becomes open circuit due to engine movement/road vibration?
I would sit a helper at the wheel with engine running to monitor the gauges whilst you wiggle the under bonnet loom that goes from ecu and fuse box and the same with the loom from the under-dash fuse box to see if you can emulate the fault.

Thorough checking of powers and grounds is a must in any electrical fault tracing - it will need access to wiring diagrams which can be viewed from this forum - once your happy there are good power and earth paths(including from that stupid flat braided earth lead under the bonnet) to the cluster and no breaks in the wires or corroded/tarnished connections at fuse boxes or ecu, then you can move onto considering if there are faults within the ecu…

HTH

 

[IhatemyDucato]

Thanks for responding AsdaPricey.

Did a visual check on the fuses. Couldn't see anything obvious. Made sure the blades were clean & lubed before I put the fuses back.

The cluster is enroute back from Cartronix. Once I've reinstalled it, I'll revisit the fuses. Read in a thread on this forum that fuse 7 (or 27 - Need to reread the thread) is implicated in various dash issues. I'll change the offending item and see what happens.

Then it's your suggestion regarding the wiring harnesses. I'll also clean up all the earth's I can find.

The van has been a 'mare for the last 2 years. First, I had to have the panoramic roof replaced (ouch!) then last year I had to have the EGR valve and all 4 injectors replaced (even oucher!). Then, the first time I used the van after that, this chuffing dash issue arose.

THAT'S why I chose my username!

Cheers

Andy

 

[Communicator]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and I could really do with some help.

The dash on my 59 plate Ducato MoHo is playing up. The analogue clocks - speedo, fuel & temp gauges, and rev counter - intermittently stop working whilst driving for no apparent reason. A few miles later, they kick back in and then they fail again. Maddening!

I've removed, checked, cleaned and replaced ALL the fuses (cabin and under the bonnet) and the problem is still there. I sent the instrument cluster to Cartronix, and they report no faults.

I'm at my wits ends. Any suggestions?

Andy

I never bother about what is on a registration plate, so when a description "59" plate is quoted, I have to start counting on my fingers to figure out what it means. I think that what you have is a 2009 registered Ducato, so most probably an x250 model. As alluded to by @AsdaPricey the braided engine block earth strap is a regular source of problems on x250 and later models. These straps can appear to be OK when seriously corroded internally. Worth replacing if not replaced recently.

The inputs for the analogue indications on x250 and later models are in the form of digital messages on the canbus, and as I read the description of the fault, all analogue indications fail together. The canbus is a common factor. When reinstalling the instrument panel, you could do worse than apply contact cleaner the connector., but do be aware that the fault could be elsewhere.

My earlier x244 does not have a canbus network, but after a lifetime of working with electronic systems, I only became an advocate of contact cleaner when I used if to cure an emerging key code problem (padlock symbol) on my vehicle. Also my son has recently used contact cleaner to cure an elusive computer RAM problem on his PC, where the contacts are gold plated to prevent such problems.

 

[IhatemyDucato]

I never bother about what is on a registration plate, so when a description "59" plate is quoted, I have to start counting on my fingers to figure out what it means. I think that what you have is a 2009 registered Ducato, so most probably an x250 model. As alluded to by @AsdaPricey the braided engine block earth strap is a regular source of problems on x250 and later models. These straps can appear to be OK when seriously corroded internally. Worth replacing if not replaced recently.

The inputs for the analogue indications on x250 and later models are in the form of digital messages on the canbus, and as I read the description of the fault, all analogue indications fail together. The canbus is a common factor. When reinstalling the instrument panel, you could do worse than apply contact cleaner the connector., but do be aware that the fault could be elsewhere.

My earlier x244 does not have a canbus network, but after a lifetime of working with electronic systems, I only became an advocate of contact cleaner when I used if to cure an emerging key code problem (padlock symbol) on my vehicle. Also my son has recently used contact cleaner to cure an elusive computer RAM problem on his PC, where the contacts are gold plated to prevent such problems.

Thanks for responding Communicator

According to the V5, it was registered on 1/10/2009.

The model is listed as:
DUCATO 35 130 M-JET LWB
And the VIN starts ZFA250 etc

Does that indicate it's a 250?

Once I've got the van home, I'll have shufty at that earth strap. Probably change it anyway. Even if it doesn't sort the problem, I'll have eliminated one of the possible causes.

I used contact cleaner when I checked the fuses and I'll use it when I reconnect the instrument panel harness. Think I'll do the same with all the harness connectors I can get at!

Cheers

Andy

 

[Communicator]

Thanks for responding Communicator

According to the V5, it was registered on 1/10/2009.

The model is listed as:
DUCATO 35 130 M-JET LWB
And the VIN starts ZFA250 etc

Does that indicate it's a 250?

Once I've got the van home, I'll have shufty at that earth strap. Probably change it anyway. Even if it doesn't sort the problem, I'll have eliminated one of the possible causes.

I used contact cleaner when I checked the fuses and I'll use it when I reconnect the instrument panel harness. Think I'll do the same with all the harness connectors I can get at!

Cheers

Andy

Yes, good luck!

 

[IhatemyDucato]

Update on my ongoing dash problem.

It's still ongoing!

All fuses checked and good, lubed and refitted. All multipin connectors checked and good, lubed and refitted. Dash tested by two different companies. No fault found by either, but the issue remains.

After about 15 miles, the speedo, rev counter, fuel and temp guages drop to zero and a bunch of warning lights (ABS, seat belt, low fuel, handbrake and charge) illuminate. After a few miles, everything resets and the gauges work correctly. And then a few miles further, the problem reappears and so on ........

I'm not an electrician. I've run out of ideas. This is beyond me. The MOT has now expired, so everything just got more difficult!

Can anyone recommend a good mobile vehicle electrician in the Peterborough/Leicester/Corby/Grantham area?

 

[AsdaPricey]

Hello @IhatemyDucato

Did you wiggle the wiring loom checking for breaks and did you consider the earth straps as mentioned in the beginning of the thread as previously suggested ? You don’t make mention of either.
With electrics it’s easy to get drawn into looking at what’s not working rather than what would cause them to fail.
You are losing so many circuits for different components that whilst not a given, there is high probability that it is a break in the wiring loom and/or high resistance in the braided earth strap under the bonnet, and both are things you can check or change yourself without being electrically minded - if it works you’ve saved yourself the cost of an auto electrician, but if it doesn’t it’s not a massive outlay and you will at this point be best served by sticking to your quest for an Auto Electrician.

 

[bugsymike]

As @Communicator mentions , it may be a can bus issue, I have a 2010 Fiat Doblo that the led display with mileage etc. on, it started intermittently stopping work, it seemed to be affected by opening the drivers door by coincidence, which recently I had to replace the door loom due to a faulty connector plug at the hinge. When reading the error codes there was an unexplained Canbus one, although I can't recall the number.
I was thinking about fitting a new LED display, strangely enough another 2010 Doblo I keep for spares has the same issue, so no cheap fix.

 

[IhatemyDucato]

Hello @IhatemyDucato

Did you wiggle the wiring loom checking for breaks and did you consider the earth straps as mentioned in the beginning of the thread as previously suggested ? You don’t make mention of either.
With electrics it’s easy to get drawn into looking at what’s not working rather than what would cause them to fail.
You are losing so many circuits for different components that whilst not a given, there is high probability that it is a break in the wiring loom and/or high resistance in the braided earth strap under the bonnet, and both are things you can check or change yourself without being electrically minded - if it works you’ve saved yourself the cost of an auto electrician, but if it doesn’t it’s not a massive outlay and you will at this point be best served by sticking to your quest for an Auto Electrician.

Morning.

Thanks for getting back. Yes, I did do 'the wiggle test'. Checked as many of the connectors as I could by wiggling 'em. Couldn't get the fault to reappear.

Interestingly, the van has just failed it's MoT because the dash dropped out mid-test. The actual MoT failure was for inoperative ABS light and seat belt warning light. The tester told me the dash failure occurred with the ignition on but without the engine running.

I've found 3 local vehicle electricians. I'm waiting for responses to my enquiry. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[IhatemyDucato]

As @Communicator mentions , it may be a can bus issue, I have a 2010 Fiat Doblo that the led display with mileage etc. on, it started intermittently stopping work, it seemed to be affected by opening the drivers door by coincidence, which recently I had to replace the door loom due to a faulty connector plug at the hinge. When reading the error codes there was an unexplained Canbus one, although I can't recall the number.
I was thinking about fitting a new LED display, strangely enough another 2010 Doblo I keep for spares has the same issue, so no cheap fix.

Cheers for responding.

This whole saga is frying my brain! Despite being a qualified vehicle mechanic myself, I've not done the job for 30 odd years and electrics were not my thing. I've found 3 local mobile vehicle electricians. I'm waiting for them to get back to me. If nothing else, they'll let me know what fault codes, if any, are showing up.

I'll Let you know how I get on.