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Sometimes you make some really great posts.
This is one of them![]()
And this isn't:
I don't have a picture of my behind readily available but here's one of my knee after mountain biking yesterday
![]()
Sometimes you make some really great posts.
This is one of them![]()
I don't have a picture of my behind readily available but here's one of my knee after mountain biking yesterday
![]()
jeez, I remember that day rather well, that bloody hurt like a bee hatch.And this isn't:
I treat my car well = )Sometimes you make some really great posts.
This is one of them.
Ahmett, from everything you have posted, I detect a teensy-weensy mismatch between your aspirations for the car, and the way you treat it.
The fact your car is still running at all does rather support Maxi's post.
Sometimes you make some really great posts.
This is one of them.
Ahmett, from everything you have posted, I detect a teensy-weensy mismatch between your aspirations for the car, and the way you treat it.
The fact your car is still running at all does rather support Maxi's post.
I treat my car well = )
I may thrash it but only when the engine is hot and i make sure the oil and coolant are fully topped up = )
I'll keep you guys informed on the car's progress!In spite of your car having a harder life than mine or jrkitching's, your car will probably last every bit as long as ours as long as you're willing to replace the bits that will go wrong with every car when it reaches a certain age![]()
Please do! Be easy on the gearbox though!I'll keep you guys informed on the car's progress!
It's been suspiciously fine recently. Funny though whenever i shift into third gear i hear a distinct clack = ) Wonder what that's about haha. I'll get the gearbox oil changed next service just in case.Please do! Be easy on the gearbox though!
:yeahthat:
One way to assess the quality of an oil is to look at the TBN. This is a measure of how good an oil is at neutralising acids. The attached chart came from here.
Since the 500 requires a C3 spec (low ash) this has caused the TBN to drop - this can be seen in this spec list on Valvoline (highly regarded oil does well for a Class III in Sheer tests) where the ACEA C3 spec was 7.5 and the standard 5W40 for older engines is 10.3
TBN figures for the following...
Selenia is stated as > 7
Castrol Edge is 7.6, Amsoil European spec is 8.0
M1 has a high TBN but did poorly in a Sheer test and does not do an ACEA C3.
So IMHO one can do better than the Selenia particularly given the price. Once the oil has the Fiat Spec Approval 9.55535.S2 you're fully covered.
With the requirement of ACEA C3 for the new range of 'Fiat' engines it would appear that the oil needs changing more regularly given the drop in TBN.
Lastly, Mobil 1 only guarantee their oils for 10K and for 12 months. Any more requires a long life filter. If the TA filter costs £20 odd it would be wishful thinking that it was one.
Newer does not necessarily equate to better. Many of the materials & fluids used in modern cars are not as good technically as the now-deprecated older products - ofter the push is environmental, not technical.
Paint, oil, petrol - none of these are actually as good at performing their basic function than the stuff we were using 20 years ago.
I'd like to explain the background to this post.
On the AF I saw a thread stating that the Selenia was a rubbish oil and that spun off into Selenia Racing lowering their TBN. (Reminded me a bit of M1 where they cheapened the make of their oil). Comparisons were made with other brands and then spiralled off into Sheer tests etc.
So when the The Twins felt that the Selenia oil was the only one that he could trust in his TA I was attempted to demonstrate that there are better oils. I have posted before a report on sheer tests on well known brands but had nothing where the Selenia oil was tested.
I thought the TBNs quoted above was useful and seeing that the Selenia is in & around the 7 I thought that was OK but not for the price that I've had to pay at my local Fiat dealer. I did double check some of the figures on the attachment and it does seem correct. I quoted the source of the table & really can't see how it's unreliable.
The reference to C3 (Low ash) is correct since although C2 is a mid-SAPS it is still referred to as a low ash at 0.8%. C2 is a requirement for the diesel at that same figure and that's referred to as needing low ash. Attachment came for the AA.
The reference to M1 and their guarantee that was to demonstrate that their 15K long life 'guarantee' oil requires a special long life filter which does NOT appear to be the case with the pricey TA filter.
On the oils mentioned by Maxi of Mobil 1, Comma, Shell & Fuchs that can be used...
Mobile 1 do not have the correct oil and Comma do not have the Fiat approval spec so on a Twin Air this would / could cause difficulty if their was a warranty claim. So I would suggest NOT using those brands.
Liam has already mentioned about some of the multi-air issues on the AF and the 135MA & the QV have service intervals of 18K. This is at logger heads with the US where that quote 8K. Their warranty is 4 years. The UK is 3 years.
So given that the OP is on a 4 year PCP in the 4th year he's still paying for his car and there's no warranty cover. If it was an Alfa you might stand a chance of a goodwill gesture but with a Fiat your chances are second to none. Some would grudge paying £91 x 3 for the 4th year peace of mind but it can be done cheaper and still with a decent brand of oil.
My apologies if I have bored anyone with my uttering boring post.
To summarise......
Use an oil which meets the ACEA C3 specs, is fully synth and is 5w40.
Change the oil and filter at or before 18k miles or 2 years, if you do less than the low mileage service interval, you'll have to change the oil and filter every year. This is what Fiat Powertrain Technologies (the people who develop the engines and decide what the service intervals should be) have decided. Do you trust FPT or do you trust some random guy who read up on a few oil sites, thinks he knows what he's doing and made a sticky? You can guess which camp I'm in.
Don't use an engine flush, if a garage does this to your car, feel free to punch both the service receptionist and the technician in the face, say Daniel from Fiatforum said it's OK and you'll be fine.
Do feel free to change your oil and filters more often than Fiat state that you MUST change them, this is a good thing but it is not absolutely necessary.
Please please please let's not get into yet another boring, tedious, monotonous and ultimately pointless oil thread based on supposition and misunderstanding. It serves no purpose when the only things you need to know are in the handbook (oil grade and interval) and common sense (changing the oil more often if you want to and buying a decent brand of oil).
JR, reading this made me cast my mind back to when we used to have Summer and Winter oils (much like the Summer and Winter tyres we have now) although I am going back much further than 20 years.
Please don't you two start fighting again.
I'd pour oil on the troubled waters, but I'd probably use the wrong brand, grade or spec.
I'd like to explain the background to this post.
On the AF I saw a thread stating that the Selenia was a rubbish oil and that spun off into Selenia Racing lowering their TBN. (Reminded me a bit of M1 where they cheapened the make of their oil). Comparisons were made with other brands and then spiralled off into Sheer tests etc.
So when the The Twins felt that the Selenia oil was the only one that he could trust in his TA I was attempted to demonstrate that there are better oils. I have posted before a report on sheer tests on well known brands but had nothing where the Selenia oil was tested.
I thought the TBNs quoted above was useful and seeing that the Selenia is in & around the 7 I thought that was OK but not for the price that I've had to pay at my local Fiat dealer. I did double check some of the figures on the attachment and it does seem correct. I quoted the source of the table & really can't see how it's unreliable.
The reference to C3 (Low ash) is correct since although C2 is a mid-SAPS it is still referred to as a low ash at 0.8%. C2 is a requirement for the diesel at that same figure and that's referred to as needing low ash. Attachment came for the AA.
The reference to M1 and their guarantee that was to demonstrate that their 15K long life 'guarantee' oil requires a special long life filter which does NOT appear to be the case with the pricey TA filter.
On the oils mentioned by Maxi of Mobil 1, Comma, Shell & Fuchs that can be used...
Mobile 1 do not have the correct oil and Comma do not have the Fiat approval spec so on a Twin Air this would / could cause difficulty if their was a warranty claim. So I would suggest NOT using those brands.
Liam has already mentioned about some of the multi-air issues on the AF and the 135MA & the QV have service intervals of 18K. This is at logger heads with the US where that quote 8K. Their warranty is 4 years. The UK is 3 years.
So given that the OP is on a 4 year PCP in the 4th year he's still paying for his car and there's no warranty cover. If it was an Alfa you might stand a chance of a goodwill gesture but with a Fiat your chances are second to none. Some would grudge paying £91 x 3 for the 4th year peace of mind but it can be done cheaper and still with a decent brand of oil.
My apologies if I have bored anyone with my uttering boring post.
Please don't you two start fighting again.
I'd pour oil on the troubled waters, but I'd probably use the wrong brand, grade or spec.
This is all getting silly and we're getting deep into the murky depths of an oil thread which is amazingly tedious, utterly boring and a waste of everyones bandwidth because not one person on here actually knows what all that much about oil. Even when you see Opie oils posting on various forums, there's usually at least a faint whiff of finely atomised turd in the air.
Fiat spec a fully synth ACEA C3 grade 5w40 oil for all petrol engined 500's (Abarth aside) so if you use that you'll be fine.
As for Mobil guaranteeing their oil for a certain length of time and mileage, what does that even mean? Oil companies offer no warranty with their oil and if you threw a piston through the block because the oil wasn't doing its job then they won't be paying for it anyway, you will. Whilst I wouldn't leave oil in for 18k miles, if Fiat say that you can then you will be able to do so without any devastating consequences. Of course an oil company is going to try and say that you should change your oil more often, that way they'll sell more oil! Most cars don't die because of oil related engine issues anyway, in fact how often do you hear of people having to have engines on everyday cars rebuilt? Modified cars yes, cars which are thrashed yes..... but not your average car which potters to the shops or goes up and down the motorway.
Please step away from google and stop reading up about oils from random sources like people on forums, that person probably doesn't know what they're talking about and just googled it the same as you did, except they think they know enough to make a sticky on the subject..
The C3 rating isn't low SAPS (Sulfated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulfur), it's actually mid SAPS and the C3 rating actually encapsulates a few other ratings like A1,A3 (fuel economy and long life for petrol engines) and B1,B3 and B4 (Fuel economy, extended drain and being for direct injection diesels)
We're kidding ourselves if any of us think that by looking at TBN, HTHS and other spec numbers that we can tell what is a good oil or what is a bad oil, for that you'd have to have a number of identical engines and run them in lab for millions of miles and then check the wear on the engine and also on catalysts and o2 sensors and the like. The best you can do is buy the right oil from a decent company. Personally I like Castrol Edge as it's a well known brand and readily available, if you want to use Fuchs, Comma, Mobil, Shell or whatever then that's fine, if you want to use Asda oil which meets the grade then that's fine also, but personally I'd stick with a better known name.
To summarise......
Use an oil which meets the ACEA C3 specs, is fully synth and is 5w40.
Change the oil and filter at or before 18k miles or 2 years, if you do less than the low mileage service interval, you'll have to change the oil and filter every year. This is what Fiat Powertrain Technologies (the people who develop the engines and decide what the service intervals should be) have decided. Do you trust FPT or do you trust some random guy who read up on a few oil sites, thinks he knows what he's doing and made a sticky? You can guess which camp I'm in.
Don't use an engine flush, if a garage does this to your car, feel free to punch both the service receptionist and the technician in the face, say Daniel from Fiatforum said it's OK and you'll be fine.
Do feel free to change your oil and filters more often than Fiat state that you MUST change them, this is a good thing but it is not absolutely necessary.
Please please please let's not get into yet another boring, tedious, monotonous and ultimately pointless oil thread based on supposition and misunderstanding. It serves no purpose when the only things you need to know are in the handbook (oil grade and interval) and common sense (changing the oil more often if you want to and buying a decent brand of oil).
Good stuff! Agree.
(Almost ran out of data allowance on my iPhone for this post though - he he )
Hahaha.... I love this... Defo made me LOL....
Btw, what was the question asked by the OP... I forgot after reading all this...![]()