Technical 2016 500x service trans, check engine, drive mode unavailable

[PANJGA884]

I have had issues with my 2016 Fiat 500x since this October. Bought used w/ approx. 35k on it in 2019. Clean report from previous owner. Over the past two years have had intermittent random warning lights come on/off - most notably the forward collision warning system turning itself off randomly. Lots of blown running & parking lights. Always mentioned these at my service appointments but never any luck figuring out where the issue stemmed from. I always suspected something electrical.

Have had all recalls addressed (cooling fan replaced, wiring harness repaired, oil consumption test 'passed'). Car is regularly serviced.

Car was at approx. 65k miles when recently was driving for about 2 hrs on a warm, humid GA day at highway speeds (80 mph). Drove through some torrential downpours too. After I was out of the rain, I went to pass a vehicle and as soon as I hit the accelerator, I got the "Service trans", "check engine" lights. Car was driving fine otherwise. Perhaps a slight chemical burning smell I noticed but otherwise fine. Took it to a dealer nearby who scanned it and gave me a stored TCM error code for the torque converter/clutch (can't remember exact code at the moment). Drove the car 2 hrs home. Lights cleared overnight but still took it in to my local mechanic. They couldn't replicate error/code so sent me on my way. Lights came back a few days later while driving normal speeds. They recommended just doing a fluid change which I agreed to. Drove fine for about a week.

Then as I was driving north to visit family (about 700 miles away), the lights returned. Took it to Fiat this time who diagnosed it as a torque converter issue and recommended replacing that and the valve body. Took a full month for them to do the work. Most notably when I got the paperwork back there was indication of metal in the transmission which they had not mentioned to me in my phone calls with them. I asked them why with a sealed, filterless transmission they felt only replacing these parts was a good fix. Surely if there was metal in the trans, it had been circulating through the entire system and caused more extensive damage to all the components. It was quite the frustrating ordeal having that convo with them. They didn't see it as an issue. Also was fishy considering my local mechanic made no mention of particles/pieces when they did the fluid change.

Drove the car off the lot and immediately heard grinding and had gear changing issues (between 1-2 and again between 6-7). Took it back to them and they said the TCM got wiped somehow and needed to be reprogrammed. Did that and car worked fine for about a day. However, the lights did return. Got pretty pissed this time with them and got FCA Cares involved.

Returned car to same dealer who stated the clutch had burned out (surprise surprise?) and recommended an entire trans replacement. I just got the car back yesterday. Has been over 2 months back and forth in their shop and FCA Cares couldn't care less. All they did was provide some assistance with checking in on the work the dealer was doing and reporting back to me. They were otherwise useless and callous.

Thank God I had a service contract on the vehicle otherwise I would have been looking at close to 10k in total repairs. Nevermind all the lost time and money on traveling back and forth because I thought it was fixed, renting/borrowing other vehicles, etc. I fully intend on trading this awful vehicle in as soon as I can and letting Fiat have it wherever I can.

Wondering if anyone else has had their trans replaced and it solved any issues??

Again, I have always suspected the issue is electrical. I doubt the trans is the actual issue. Perhaps a result of something larger - but not the primary issue itself. Fiat doesn't seem to care to figure it out. Wondering how long it will be before I'm facing the same issue/lights again.

 

[Ralf S.]

By the sound of it, I think you had a TCM issue, and it's just the repair process and communication that wasn't great.

The original error code might not have been very precise. Codes usually relate to the first issue the car detects, and would depend on which sensor first detected a problem. Mechanics then tend to chase the error message/sensor and don't always look beyond that to see whether something else caused or contributed to it. If your car smelt a bit - clutches is usually bacon -then the smell ought to have been obvious to the mechanic and it should have been a bit of a clue.

Anyhow... when they did the first fluid change there may not have been signs of metal particles in the gear oil.. or these might have been so fine as could be considered normal for the mileage... so I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be reported.

Changing the gear oil helps the gearbox if there's something gummed up in there (an actuator - which change the gears - or similar) but usually gear oil lasts for ages and doesn't have a too hard life, so changing it was quite a long shot. On the other hand, compared to removing the transmission for a look inside ($$) it might have been a good, if optimistic solution... particularly if the TCM error was vague or could not be reproduced, and if the bacon smell had totally disappeared by then.


The TCM parts themselves are not inside the gearbox (the wet/oily part), they live in a separate housing between the engine and gearbox and are "dry". By the time they swapped the Torque Converter, there probably was metal present "in the transmission".. but I presume this is not inside the gearbox/gear oil.. (which was recently changed, up there ^ ) but simply could mean inside the clutch/TC housing.

If the pieces of metal appeared inside the gear oil then I would expect gearbox problems as well as clutch/TCM problems.. whining or notchiness etc. so I'm guessing the metal parts were indeed found in the clutch/TC housing, which is "normal" for a clutch/TCM problem.. since they're falling apart and the pieces have to go somewhere. The pieces don't usually damage anything since they fall to the bottom of the housing.. and in any case, it's the actual components that are losing pieces.. so they are already "damaged".


When you replace the TCM you have to re-align the clutches (there are two) and it sounds like they failed to do this/correctly and that led to damage to the clutches, which they then had to replace.

It sounds like they have now/finally swapped the entire transmission, from the clutches back to the gearbox (which I think was probably okay, since it's physically isolated from the clutch/TCM) so apart from the mechanics seem to have been slow to recognise the initial problem and then caused some of the later problems themselves, they/Fiat have at least corrected their mistakes and given you a new gearbox for good measure. Hopefully that's the last of the problems and it will last you again for a long time.

The car sounds generally okay now so don't be too harsh on it. It only suffered a TCM problem that the mechanics didn't fix properly. The whole dealer/Fiat experience might have been less than great .. I don't know them... but transmissions are fairly complex beasts and not every regular mechanic understands them all that well.. although arguably they should.

But I hope it continues to stay fixed...

Ralf S.

 

[PANJGA884]

By the sound of it, I think you had a TCM issue, and it's just the repair process and communication that wasn't great.

The original error code might not have been very precise. Codes usually relate to the first issue the car detects, and would depend on which sensor first detected a problem. Mechanics then tend to chase the error message/sensor and don't always look beyond that to see whether something else caused or contributed to it. If your car smelt a bit - clutches is usually bacon -then the smell ought to have been obvious to the mechanic and it should have been a bit of a clue.

Anyhow... when they did the first fluid change there may not have been signs of metal particles in the gear oil.. or these might have been so fine as could be considered normal for the mileage... so I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be reported.

Changing the gear oil helps the gearbox if there's something gummed up in there (an actuator - which change the gears - or similar) but usually gear oil lasts for ages and doesn't have a too hard life, so changing it was quite a long shot. On the other hand, compared to removing the transmission for a look inside ($$) it might have been a good, if optimistic solution... particularly if the TCM error was vague or could not be reproduced, and if the bacon smell had totally disappeared by then.


The TCM parts themselves are not inside the gearbox (the wet/oily part), they live in a separate housing between the engine and gearbox and are "dry". By the time they swapped the Torque Converter, there probably was metal present "in the transmission".. but I presume this is not inside the gearbox/gear oil.. (which was recently changed, up there ^ ) but simply could mean inside the clutch/TC housing.

If the pieces of metal appeared inside the gear oil then I would expect gearbox problems as well as clutch/TCM problems.. whining or notchiness etc. so I'm guessing the metal parts were indeed found in the clutch/TC housing, which is "normal" for a clutch/TCM problem.. since they're falling apart and the pieces have to go somewhere. The pieces don't usually damage anything since they fall to the bottom of the housing.. and in any case, it's the actual components that are losing pieces.. so they are already "damaged".


When you replace the TCM you have to re-align the clutches (there are two) and it sounds like they failed to do this/correctly and that led to damage to the clutches, which they then had to replace.

It sounds like they have now/finally swapped the entire transmission, from the clutches back to the gearbox (which I think was probably okay, since it's physically isolated from the clutch/TCM) so apart from the mechanics seem to have been slow to recognise the initial problem and then caused some of the later problems themselves, they/Fiat have at least corrected their mistakes and given you a new gearbox for good measure. Hopefully that's the last of the problems and it will last you again for a long time.

The car sounds generally okay now so don't be too harsh on it. It only suffered a TCM problem that the mechanics didn't fix properly. The whole dealer/Fiat experience might have been less than great .. I don't know them... but transmissions are fairly complex beasts and not every regular mechanic understands them all that well.. although arguably they should.

But I hope it continues to stay fixed...

Ralf S.

Thanks, Ralf - I appreciate the lengthy and detailed response. Very helpful!

My only response is that Fiat didn't "give" me anything - my service contract that I've paid quite good money for did. I wish Fiat had taken any accountability! The GM initially made a comment about "you must never make mistakes" but then backtracked and said no mistakes were made. And FIAT Cares was pretty useless except for following up with the dealership.

65k is way too early for this car to have needed a total transmission replacement. From all the research I've done, it seems like this is a pervasive problem with this model. Why certain FCA cars have been recalled and others haven't is perplexing.

The car has driven the approx. 700 miles home with the new trans but I'm still having the same old electrical issues (i.e. forward collision system randomly coming off and on, etc). So I'm driving around completely anxious that every light and warning bell is another 2-3month long, expensive fix waiting to happen and this time I won't have a service contract to help me out since they maxed it out.

 

[Ralf S.]

appreciate the lengthy and detailed response. Very helpful!

My only response is that Fiat didn't "give" me anything - my service contract that I've paid quite good money for did. I wish Fiat had taken any accountability! The GM initially made a co

The blowing bulbs and the other electrical problems could be related to earthing issues, since they sound quite random and transitory.

There is an earth point from the battery on the inner wing (under the battery). There may be a similar one on the other side, on the inner wing behind the headlamp. It's not a regular problem but the contact with the car body can become slightly corroded/dirty and therefore creates more electrical resistance, which would then place more load on the components, hence the blown bulbs etc.

It may be worth just disconnecting the earth cables where they're bolted to the inner wings and checking the connections. The cables terminate in flattened piece of lead/soft metal that is usually bolted to a recessed captive nut on the wing. If you unbolt that end, clean the contact area on the wing and also remove any dirt and grease from the both the terminal "face" and the bolt threads, that will ensure there's as good a connection as there can be. Grease over the terminal once you've replaced the bolt, to keep salt/water/air out and then you'll have eliminated that as a possible cause.


Ralf S.

 

[Acoy]

I know this is an old post but wanted to reply in case anyone else was experiencing this. I have the same car and experienced the check engine light on for 2 days straight (2 days after I bought the car) it drove fine beside the check engine light being on & drive modes unavailable + when using remote start it would turn on & then turn off a few seconds later. Whilst waiting for the service dept to call me so I could make an appt my mom mentioned maybe the gas cap isn’t screwed on right. I said it doesn’t really have a screw on gas cap or at least mine doesn’t. Just the rubber cover piece that is connected to the inside of the little door. Well I opened and shut the little gas door and started up the car- check engine light turned off & the car is running completely normal now. Maybe this isn’t the quick fix for everyone else having this issue but it could be!