Technical 2011 Ka Diesel (Fiat 1.3 Multijet) Braking Trouble

[Kadiesel]

Hi.

Looking for some advice please. We have a 2011 Ford Ka Diesel with a braking issue. As this is basically a Fiat 500 I thought best to join this forum over a Ford one.

The brakes feel hard to press. If I brake hard the brakes aren't sharp at all, then the ABS comes on.

Under the bonnet there seems to be two brake fluid reservoirs. The smaller of the two seems to be empty. In the manual, for the RHD under bonnet diagram there are two reservoirs labelled as brake fluid. On the LHD diagram there is only one labelled. Why would this be the case? I'm guessing it shouldn't be empty. At first we thought it may be the clutch fluid reservoir but according to the diagrams the LHD diesel and both LHD/RHD petrols don't have this reservoir?

This issue appeared to start overnight. There was a clunk when reversing as if the brakes were stuck on. They've felt hard with little braking effort since. They were fine before.

The discs and pads look okay.

Before taking to the garage, any advice or experience with this issue would be appreciated. I don't want them to say new discs/pads and still have the issue if it's an ABS unit or vacuum pump etc. Are there ways to diagnose these?

Thanks.

 

[Bodga]

Hi, my daughters 2008 500 diesel has two fluid reserviors, the small one is for the clutch fluid.

I would jack up the rear of the car and check the rear drum operation with foot brake and pedal. it could be that one of the rear liners has come away from the shoe?

 

[Kadiesel]

Thanks for the reply.

I initially thought the smaller reservoir was for the clutch, but I'm not so sure. Why would only the RHD diesel have this though? See picture out of manual attached.

When this first happened (the clunk + change in braking) I took it to my mechanic who said he couldn't see anything wrong, cleaned out the rear brakes and adjusted something which made the handbrake which was poor anyway, slightly better.

Assuming he actually did this, I don't think it will be the shoes. But I can check. Sorry to sound stupid but do you mean jack it up on flat without hand brake one side at a time, press foot brake with engine running and see if wheel can be rotated?

I will be taking to a different garage this time as work he's done on our other car has not been the best of late.

Thanks.

 

[Bodga]

The bottom right picture is the same as my daughters. Yes the smaller one is the clutch fluid, top up if it’s empty.

yes jack up the rear and rotate the wheel whilst an assistant presses the brake pedal and then operate the hand brake. You shouldn‘t be able to spin the wheel when either is applied an the wheel should spin freely otherwise. Make sure you chok both front wheels front and rear of the tyres whilst the car is jacked up.

 

[A3jeroen]

Since it's a diesel I presume there is a vacuum pump to provide the vacuum for the brakebooster. Make sure it provides enough vacuum.

gr J

 

[John202020]

If you have the skill, remove each wheel and check the brakes front and rear dismantling them within reason to check,

Is it possible the vacuum assist is missing and the clunk was coincidence ?

 

[Ralf S.]

Both reservoirs use brake fluid as the hydraulic fluid, hence they are both labelled "Brake Fluid" in the manual but they are not both reservoirs for the brakes.

The smaller reservoir ("G") is for the clutch. RHD models (petrol and diesel) have it because the car was designed for LHD. The master cylinder for the brakes, and the servo etc. are fitted on the "left" of the car, where a LHD driver would sit. When they move the pedal box to the "right" of the car, they have to connect the brakes and clutch to the servo/master cylinders on the left, and sometimes that's not simple. It could be the layout of the servo/master cylinder hardware doesn't lend itself to use the existing (as LHD) reservoir, so they have to fit a remote one instead. It's probably cheaper/easier than re-engineering the servo/cylinder hardware.

If your "G" reservoir is empty, it means you either have a leak in the clutch hydraulic circuit, or the clutch has worn a fair amount and the fluid has dropped accordingly. If the clutch is operating correctly, that suggests that the level is just low.. so top it up... but check that you don't have a leak, either at the slave cylinder on the front of the gearbox (get your head under the bumper, on the passenger side.. find the gearbox and look for a wet patch on the top/front) or at the joint where the metal hose from the master cylinder meets the flexible hose to the clutch. This is on the inner wing, under the battery.

The "ABS" light coming on may be a low brake fluid indicator, so check and top up the fluid in both reservoirs. I don't know/didn't think that the clutch circuit used the same "ABS" light to indicate a low level in the clutch circuit... but you never know.

If the brakes are "hard" but not giving you power, then that's a servo problem. You'll need to check the hoses on the servo are attached/not leaking... and then that it's producing enough vacuum. Your brakes sound like they're working without assistance, rather than you have a "brakes" problem (I mean down at the wheels).



Ralf S.