Technical 2005 2.3jtd starting issue

[ChasF]

I’ve had this van 18 months, it’s not used every day but has been a very good starter/runner up until now. It’s done 130,000kms.

I started it a couple of days ago, fired up first time as usual ran for about a minute then just stopped like it had run out of fuel. Hasn’t started since. Making some checks the pump runs but for about 20 seconds - I think it used to run for about 2 seconds before. Put some fuel in although the fuel gauges indicates there is plenty.

Anyone any clues or where can I easily check fuel is getting to the injection pump - you may gather from this that I’m not knowledgeable on diesel engines.

Thanks in advance for replies

 

[Communicator]

Hi ChasF,

I do not like thanks in advance. Please, it would be much better for you to post the eventual outcome, so as to help others with similar problems,.

The 2.3jtd is an electronically controlled engine, so sudden failures can be electrical as well as problems with the fuel supply.

Is the engine warning light lit? If yes then you should have the alarm codes read with a suitable OBDII reader.

The fuel lift pump is conrtrolled by the ECU, so the fact that the pump runs, suggests that the supply to the ECU is present.

A diesel engine needs a supply of air and fuel in order to run.. The fuel supply may be checked by slightly looseng the filter outlet with the ignition iswitched on.

As regards the air supply, it is possible for mice to get into the air filter and cause havoc. Remove the filter cover and element to check for damage.

I am attaching an extract from Fiat eLearn, which relates to the fuel supply system.

 

[ChasF]

Thanks for the reply

There is no engine fault light on and no fault codes on the OBD. Air filter is fine. I haven’t as yet checked the fuel at the filter as it looks as if I need to remove the bottom half of the air filter to get access which I will do this afternoon.

I’ll certainly post up details of the fault and repair once it’s sorted out.

 

[Communicator]

Yes as in other models the fuel filter is hidden behind the air filter.

I hope that you manage to remove the air filter housing without difficulty. Please note that the air filter housing is fixed to its mounting bracket via anti vibration rubber mounts. On my vehicle, the nuts for the mountings were slightly rusted, and I found it better to remove the housing complete with bracket.

The air hoses are secured with "ezyclik" hose clips, for which a special tool is highly desireable. Have a good look before you start.

If you do not get fuel at the fuel filter outlet, you could also check at the filter inlet, before investigating the fuel lift pump which is located in the tank, with access via the LH cab floor.

 

[ChasF]

I remember having problems with the air filter housing on my older Boxer 2.5D when I had to fit a new cylinder head. I think I’ll just take the feed off the filter (which I can get at with just the top off the air filter) and get my wife to turn the ignition on/off. I’ve had the fuel pump out before to fit a standpipe for the diesel heater but that was a good 10k kms ago so I don’t think that is the problem. I’m just charging the battery so I’ll try the pump in the morning.

 

[ChasF]

Fuel is coming through the filter when the ignition is on so I’m now concerned that there is a problem with the ECU or high pressure pump - but no error codes?

 

[Communicator]

I think that you are now running out of simple options, but has the fuel filter been changed or drained recently? I am wondering if any water could have been drawn into the fuel system?

One possible failure that may not raise any alarms is that of the crankshaft sensor, which is located under a bracket near the bottom of the clutch housing. However perhaps the best advice that I can give is to obtain a copy of eLearn, and perhaps Multiecuscan.

To see an example of eLearn follow this link. While the site linked to relates to the 2.8jtd, many of the none engine related sections will still apply, and I suspect that the engine fault finding flow chart, is at least similar.

However this is a forum, and I am wondering whether any other members have any suggestions?

 

[ChasF]

Somebody suggested either the crank position sensor, cam position sensor or rpm sensor may be faulty. I’ve downloaded the free version of multiecuscan app which at least has a specific profile for the 2.3jtd engine so may give me some clues which I’ll try in the morning. Still need to find out which ecu is fitted.

Thanks for the links

 

[porta]

A friend of mine had a windscreen replaced and then, a week later, reported the same symptoms as yourself (I’m not saying the fitter broke anything or incorrectly fitted all the ancillaries/seals/drains etc but it was certainly coincidental)…if it’s the type/year where the fusebox is engine bay right, have a look in there for any signs of water ingress. We tried for ages with our two code readers and no faults recorded, took the fusebox out and water damage was obvious, quite apart from it dripping out wehn we tilted it over, it had that chalky corrosion on terminals…a new fuse box cured it…we’ve still no idea why no falt codes were picked up

 

[Communicator]

Somebody suggested either the crank position sensor, cam position sensor or rpm sensor may be faulty. I’ve downloaded the free version of multiecuscan app which at least has a specific profile for the 2.3jtd engine so may give me some clues which I’ll try in the morning. Still need to find out which ecu is fitted.

Thanks for the links

The crankshaft sensor, and the rpm sensor are the same item. In general the camshaft sensor is only used at startup to determine the stroke of presumably No, 1 piston. Hence a faulty camshaft sensor could hinder starting, but will not cause the engine to stop once started.

 

[ChasF]

I’ve run a scan with the multiecuscan app and it came up with the code P1555 described as ‘accelerator/brake consistency’. Looking on Google suggest a wide range of possibilities from a vacuum pump relay fault to a faulty oxygen sensor so no further forward.

 

[Communicator]

Accelerator/brake inconsitency relates to seeming to be pressing both pedals at the same time, something that the ECU does not expect. There are several threads on this forum, concerning this subject.

From search results on this forum, P1555 also seems to be used for excessive charge (turbo output) pressure. This can be caused by a sticking turbo wastegate, which can only cause problems when the engine is running. However it seems possible that a faulty sensor may result in an incorrect high reading.

According to Fiat eLearn, there were two versions of the 2.3jtd engine used on the x244 model. That is with and without EGR. With reference if necessary to the attached file taken from eLearn, can you please indicate which version you have?

 

[Communicator]

The crankshaft sensor, and the rpm sensor are the same item. In general the camshaft sensor is only used at startup to determine the stroke of presumably No, 1 piston. Hence a faulty camshaft sensor could hinder starting, but will not cause the engine to stop once started.

I have been browsing the 2.3jtd secion of eLearn, and while my statement above regarding the camshaft sensor is correct for the 2.8jtd, it seems that the 2.3jtd continues to use the camshaft sensor when running. This means that the camshaft sensor cannot be eliminated so easily, as a possible cause.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[ChasF]

I have been browsing the 2.3jtd secion of eLearn, and while my statement above regarding the camshaft sensor is correct for the 2.8jtd, it seems that the 2.3jtd continues to use the camshaft sensor when running. This means that the camshaft sensor cannot be eliminated so easily, as a possible cause.

Sorry for any confusion.

Thanks for the information. Most of the stuff I’ve read suggests that the tdc sensor is more commonly related to starting problems.

From what I can see because myvan has the more basic ECU the diagnostics are limited. I’m thinking I’ll buy new tdc and cam sensors and fit the tdc one first then the cam if it doesn’t go then I’ll get it recovered to a garage and see if they can solve the problem.

 

[ChasF]

.
According to Fiat eLearn, there were two versions of the 2.3jtd engine used on the x244 model. That is with and without EGR. With reference if necessary to the attached file taken from eLearn, can you please indicate which version you have?

As far as I can see mine is the model without EGR.

I think I have located the crank position sensor but it seems to me that this can only be accessed by removing the starter motor first - my concern is that I may not be looking at the right thing but I need to determine which type of sensor I have before ordering a replacement. They are two distinct versions shown one of which has a flying lead and the other has the connection on the sensor body. I can’t see the inline connector so assume I have the other type if I’m looking at the right thing.

 

[Communicator]

There are some useful layout diagrams in the descriptions section of eLearn, and I am attaching the Fuel (Management) Section. However I am always stressing that there are inconsitencies, and errors in most generally available copies of eLearn. An example is the crankshaft sensor for the 2.3jtd. The diagram shows it at the front (No.1 cylinder, or cambelt end) while the text has the sensor at the flywheel end. As the latter is true for the 2.8jtd, I am suspecting a bit of inappropiate cut and paste.

 

[ChasF]

Still trying to get the van running. I now have a full version of Multiecuscan which shows that the rpm sensor is working but also shows that the fuel pressure regulator is not opening - stays at 0% when cranking the engine. I’m trying to determine if the fpr can be changed without removing the hp pump??

 

[Communicator]

Still trying to get the van running. I now have a full version of Multiecuscan which shows that the rpm sensor is working but also shows that the fuel pressure regulator is not opening - stays at 0% when cranking the engine. I’m trying to determine if the fpr can be changed without removing the hp pump??

Are you reading any rail pressure? eLearn says 150 bar minimum, for injection to occur.

 

[ChasF]

Are you reading any rail pressure? eLearn says 150 bar minimum, for injection to occur.

Less than 100 bar. I’m becoming convinced that it is the fuel pressure regulator that’s faulty - here’s hoping as it’s a lot cheaper and easier to change than the hp pump!

 

[Communicator]

Less than 100 bar. I’m becoming convinced that it is the fuel pressure regulator that’s faulty - here’s hoping as it’s a lot cheaper and easier to change than the hp pump!

Yes at 468 GBP reconditioned, but you my find this site worth a look, with exploded diagrams.