Technical 2003 2.0 JTD Cold Starting Problem

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Technical 2003 2.0 JTD Cold Starting Problem

avionista

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When starting first thing in the morning, I noticed over a 3 month period that the cranking time (before the engine fired) was getting longer and longer. The fuel pump in the tank was operating OK so I changed the fuel filter to improve the fuel supply to the HP pump. Starting improved for a week or so but, finally, it refused to start after sitting on the drive for a couple of days. My battery is in good condition and was spinning the engine over satisfactorily. I decided to put the battery on charge overnight and investigate further the next day.

The next morning my engine did start but only after cranking for about 15-20 seconds. With the engine now running, I connected my Planet2000 laptop to the diagnostic socket and checked the "Parameters 1 & 2" measurements. Everything seemed normal, the engine was running sweetly and there were no DTCs. I then went for a 10 mile run with Planet2000 still connected to the diagnostic socket and was able to observe the parameters with the car under load. The pressure regulator and 3rd piston de-activation solenoid (on the HP Pump) appeared to be function normally. Also, the common rail pressure seemed to be varying normally in response to throttle changes, ranging from about 275 bar at idle to 1200+ bar under heavy load/acceleration. The instantaneous MPG reading on my RT3 screen was normal and the car's performance was fine. Once started and warmed up, restarting the car was no problem. I decided to leave the car on the drive overnight and do some more checks the next day.

Before trying to start the engine, I removed the outlet hose from the top of the fuel filter (the one going to the HP pump inlet) and pushed a short length of hose onto the filter outlet connector. The open end of the hose was put into an empty plastic water bottle. My wife turned on the ignition so that I could observe the fuel flowing into the bottle. The pressure at the outlet of the filter is supposed to be about 2.5 bar and, although I didn't have the means to measure it accurately, placing my thumb on the end of the hose gave me the sense that it was probably OK. Next, I replaced the connection on the fuel filter and connected up my Planet2000 to the diagnostic socket with "Parameters 1" selected. This enabled me to observe the common rail pressure reading when I tried to start the engine. After 10 seconds of cranking it failed to start and the rail pressure was only about 130 bar. At this point I suspected HP pump failure or a leaking injector. However, whilst researching the Bosch EDC15C2 injection system on the internet I came across an exploded diagram of the CP1 pump which shows a small check valve in the HP Pump inlet pipe. I wondered whether it might be sticking and preventing fuel from reaching the HP pump pistons. My next move was to remove the rubber hose from the HP pump inlet connection. Using a very clean allen key which just fitted inside the inlet pipe, I pressed down on the valve and found it to be quite stiff, but 30 seconds or so of manipulation with the allen key and I could feel the valve moving freely. It has a spring return which is supposed to allow the valve to open when the input fuel pressure exceeds 0.8 bar. I replaced the inlet hose on the HP pump using a new jubilee clip, turned the ignition key and 'Hey presto' the engine fired first time. After a week, the car is still starting first time in the morning as it always used to do.

If your engine becomes difficult to start, but once started runs well with no diagnostic fault codes, a sticking HP pump inlet check valve may be the culprit.
 
Nice one, can't say I like PP much though, much prefer Lexia as it seems easier to navigate around.

By the way, I bought a new interface off eBay and now I can read VINs and BSIs again - happy days!
 
When I bought my Citroen/Peugeot interface it was for my Peugeot 407 so PP2000 seemed appropriate and getting the software installed/activated was a bit of a hassle. I do have the Lexia software but have been reluctant to install it just in case I screw up my working version of PP2000. Glad you got your interface working again.
 
Yeah it was the interface as you suggested, sent it back to easy diagnostics who said they couldn't find anything wrong with it & returned it.

Bought a cheaper one off eBay and worked straight away, got a refund though so all ended okay.
 
An update to my original post.

After the fix I described in my OP, my car always started OK first thing in the morning, but it still seemed to be cranking for a bit longer than normal. Subsequent starts during the day were normal. With the arrival of better weather I decided to investigate further.

In order to measure the fuel pressure on the outlet of the fuel filter, which connects to the HP pump, I attached a dial type tyre pressure gauge to a 3 feet length of garden hose, using a Jubilee clip. The open end of the hose was then clamped to the fuel filter outlet, again using a small Jubilee clip. This enabled me to see the pressure gauge whilst switching on the ignition via the open driver's door window. The gauge read 1 bar initially, then rose gradually to 1.5 bar after about 5 seconds. The pressure is supposed to be 2.5 bar, so clearly something was amiss. It seemed to me my problem could be due to either a faulty/blocked fuel pump in the fuel tank or a faulty fuel pressure regulator built into the top of the fuel filter housing. To check the pressure regulator, I removed the connection on the fuel filter which takes excess fuel back to the tank and fitted a blanking plug to prevent the filter pressure regulator from lowering the pressure delivered by the pump in the tank. When I turned on the ignition now, my pressure gauge read over 5 bar almost immediately, which pointed to a faulty pressure regulator in my fuel filter housing being my problem.

After fitting a new filter housing (£40 from eBay) my car now starts within 2 seconds first thing in the morning.

Hope this is useful to anyone who experiences the same problem.
 
When I bought my Citroen/Peugeot interface it was for my Peugeot 407 so PP2000 seemed appropriate and getting the software installed/activated was a bit of a hassle. I do have the Lexia software but have been reluctant to install it just in case I screw up my working version of PP2000. Glad you got your interface working again.

I ave lexia and PP2000 installed on my lappy neither interferes with the other.
My preference is Lexia especially where diags and Initializations are concerned (already demonstrated on another thread that PP doesn't initialize nodes etc when it says it has!) - see sliding door thread by yellowfish!
 
Hi Wise Ones - Not quite the same problem as above I think but with such a brilliant write up I am hoping for some long distance diagnostics! 03 MKII 2.0 JTD over the last 10k miles the vehicle has spells when the pickup is slow when pulling away until 3k revs exactly when it comes on song and then accelerates away well. It is otherwise running well, smooth tickover, no smoke and it pulls evenly albeit as I say a bit slowly sometimes. If it were petrol I would suspect a plug or lead but even then for it not to have improved or worsened in 10K miles I would be wondering? Not too good with diesels, any suggestions on what I am looking for please. Thanks
 
Hi Wise Ones - Not quite the same problem as above I think but with such a brilliant write up I am hoping for some long distance diagnostics! 03 MKII 2.0 JTD over the last 10k miles the vehicle has spells when the pickup is slow when pulling away until 3k revs exactly when it comes on song and then accelerates away well. It is otherwise running well, smooth tickover, no smoke and it pulls evenly albeit as I say a bit slowly sometimes. If it were petrol I would suspect a plug or lead but even then for it not to have improved or worsened in 10K miles I would be wondering? Not too good with diesels, any suggestions on what I am looking for please. Thanks
Hi , I too have an 03 Ulysse 2 litre diesel with 91k which has a similar problem ,with poor acceleration from a standing start , seems that something is holding it back , feels like no turbo kicking in under 2000 revs and then it appears to come to life between 2k and 3k rpm . Owned the car from new and always felt it was sluggish pulling away but just put it down to the weight of the car .Seemed to go even slower around the 60k mark so asked a friend if I could try his pug 807 with same engine .What a difference , I could actually feel the turbo kick in strongly and it zoomed away compared to the Ulysse weak affair .

Took it to a Fiat Dealer who plugged it in and could find no codes showing and didn't have a clue what the problem was . So took it to indie and he cleaned and adjusted the throttle cable and stuck some Fortron engine cleaner in the tank .At last it actually drove like a transformed car and felt like it actually had a turbo working properly . Sadly this did not last more than a few months and the car has gone back to it's old ways again .Guy in garage said it needed a new throttle cable but have just put up with it !

Anyway did you manage to resolve it on your car with a new maf sensor as suggested ?
 
Hello, It is a little early to be confident but I am hoping it is fixed, it is certainly a lot better at the moment and no I have not replaced the MAP or MAF yet. I then started to suffer some starting problems (as you will see in a later thread) and I narrowed that down to a power problem whereby I had 13.5v output from the alternator but a volt less at the battery. Fitting a new earth between the block and body because I could not find the old one (Fran has since pointed out it is under the air cleaner) cured that problem giving me full charging volts at the battery and strangely seemingly fixing the lag problem at the same time. A little too early to be sure but it seems OK for the moment.
 
More likely that because you removed the air filter, you unplugged the MAF and refitted it helping a poor contact on the plug.
 
Good thought and that would likely be true if I had removed the air cleaner and unplugged the MAF but I have not done so yet because your kind advice as to where to find the original earth was offered after I had fitted a knew one so at the moment IF it is fixed then it can only be down to the higher voltage. I do intend to remove the air cleaner to find the proper earth where you advise (and hopefully the MAF) in the near future but I have been a bit busy - whether the new better earth has any relevance to the original problem I know not - but she is running nicely at the moment?
 
I realise this is an old thread, but on the off chance

"CP1 pump which shows a small check valve in the HP Pump inlet pipe. I wondered whether it might be sticking and preventing fuel from reaching the HP pump pistons. My next move was to remove the rubber hose from the HP pump inlet connection"

How do I identify the hp pump inlet pipe

I believe i have the same issue

TIA
 
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