Technical 2002 ducato manual to electric windows?

[Ronnie63]

Our 2002 pre facelift has manual windows, I bought one of those universal kits but they did not have enough power to wind the windows up only down! Been keeping an eye out for someone breaking one but all I have found are manual! Have seen the motors new on ebay but not cheap just wondered if anyone has done this?

Thanks Ronnie

 

[Communicator]

I consider electrically operated windows to be somewhat a dubious advantage. My 1990 Talbot Express based motorhome had manual windows. The only problem was one broken winding handle. My x244 PVC has electric windows. They cannot normally be operated unless the ignition is on, and as the driver's seat is on a turntable, just reinserting the key can be a major exercise. My solution was to install a time limited release circuit, but this did take some time and expense to implement.

 

[Ronnie63]

Bumping an old thread here!

So I managed to buy a pair of used electric window winders for our X230 I just wondered if anyone knows how easy it will be to remove the old winders and will the new electric one's be a straight swap without complication? Apart from the electrics that is

Thanks Ronnie

 

[gm6vxb]

Done this on an X250, but the X230 should be pretty similar.
You will probably have more difficulty taking the door panel (and any waterproofing behind it) off. Chances are some of the clips will break due to age, and finding replacements can be a bind. If you have an arm rest then this is usually screwed onto the door, door opening mechanism will need to be removed also which can be a pain to access the little clip that holds the wire 'puller' on..
Taking the winder mechanism off is pretty straightforward.
Firstly wind the window down about half way so you can get to the catch that clips the mechanism onto the glass (green bit in your picture). Unclip this and then move the window back to fully closed and wedge it so it does not suddenly drop.
Mechanism is held in with three 10MM bolts. Undo these and then you will have to find which is the best way to get the old unit out.
Fitting the motorized unit should then be the reverse.

Not certain but think the winder you have does not have the safe stop module, This might be fitted elsewhere but not sure with an X230. If no safe stop module is fitted then you just have to be careful not to leave the motor energised as it will burn out the motor at worst, or pop the fuse at best.

You might or might not have wiring in the door for electric windows. If not then I can recommend this Ebay item: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181165386162?hash=item2a2e4c69b2:g:FNIAAOxygPtSwHdE Which I have fitted to an X250. All you will need is a 12 Volt supply and earth, and a suitable switch (on-off-on) to operate the window. Caviat as above, stop pressing the button when the window is fully up or down !.

 

[Ronnie63]

Done this on an X250, but the X230 should be pretty similar.
You will probably have more difficulty taking the door panel (and any waterproofing behind it) off. Chances are some of the clips will break due to age, and finding replacements can be a bind. If you have an arm rest then this is usually screwed onto the door, door opening mechanism will need to be removed also which can be a pain to access the little clip that holds the wire 'puller' on..
Taking the winder mechanism off is pretty straightforward.
Firstly wind the window down about half way so you can get to the catch that clips the mechanism onto the glass (green bit in your picture). Unclip this and then move the window back to fully closed and wedge it so it does not suddenly drop.
Mechanism is held in with three 10MM bolts. Undo these and then you will have to find which is the best way to get the old unit out.
Fitting the motorized unit should then be the reverse.

Not certain but think the winder you have does not have the safe stop module, This might be fitted elsewhere but not sure with an X230. If no safe stop module is fitted then you just have to be careful not to leave the motor energised as it will burn out the motor at worst, or pop the fuse at best.

You might or might not have wiring in the door for electric windows. If not then I can recommend this Ebay item: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181165386162?hash=item2a2e4c69b2:g:FNIAAOxygPtSwHdE Which I have fitted to an X250. All you will need is a 12 Volt supply and earth, and a suitable switch (on-off-on) to operate the window. Caviat as above, stop pressing the button when the window is fully up or down !.

Thanks for this, I have had the door panels off already when I tried to fit a universal kit which looked good but did not have enough power to push the window up! So I do have the wiring loom and switches that came with that. Not sure what the module you linked to does? I intended to just use the loom and switches.

Thanks Ronnie

 

[Communicator]

@Ronnie63 ,

You may find this link useful. The x244 is described as a facelift version of the x230. From this I suspect that the door panels will be similar. One difference will be the plastic rubbing strip on the exterior of the x244 door.

 

[gm6vxb]

Looking back at the picture of the winder mechanism, it looks like there is no 'control electronics' fitted.
So any 'electronic control' might be back inside one of the ECU's.
Have a look back at a post I did last year titled:

Ducato 2007 X250 passenger window regulator problem fixed​

This shows the two different types of electronics fitted to an X250, which may also apply to an X230. The two types are not interchangable without major work somewhere on the ECU's. I did not go there !.
Now my van is in the time zone where it was probably an X244 build but badged as an X250 so lots of things are 'not quite right' when you come to do work on it.

Basically I had the module fitted as per the first picture. Had all sorts of problems with the window which ended up with the unit failing.
Bought a second unit as per the second picture, which only applied power to the motor and no up/down control.

This is where the Ebay bought module comes in.
Basically it has a main (12Volt) supply, and control wires, so full motor power is seperated from the switch side.
Having had one apart (typical electronic engineer !) all it is is a changeover relay wired so that the switch applies power to the motor correctly for up or down control.
Install meant confirming what wire did what, cutting off the old plug and soldering (prefered to crimping) the wires.
So far no problem with the unit, infact have a spare for when the driver side electronics fail.

 

[Ronnie63]

@Ronnie63 ,

You may find this link useful. The x244 is described as a facelift version of the x230. From this I suspect that the door panels will be similar. One difference will be the plastic rubbing strip on the exterior of the x244 door.

Thank you, now I'm saying mine is an X230 as it's the older style cab but it's 2002 reg, will have a look at that link but seems easy enough to swap the mechanism out once the door panels are removed

 

[Ronnie63]

Looking back at the picture of the winder mechanism, it looks like there is no 'control electronics' fitted.
So any 'electronic control' might be back inside one of the ECU's.
Have a look back at a post I did last year titled:

Ducato 2007 X250 passenger window regulator problem fixed​

This shows the two different types of electronics fitted to an X250, which may also apply to an X230. The two types are not interchangable without major work somewhere on the ECU's. I did not go there !.
Now my van is in the time zone where it was probably an X244 build but badged as an X250 so lots of things are 'not quite right' when you come to do work on it.

Basically I had the module fitted as per the first picture. Had all sorts of problems with the window which ended up with the unit failing.
Bought a second unit as per the second picture, which only applied power to the motor and no up/down control.

This is where the Ebay bought module comes in.
Basically it has a main (12Volt) supply, and control wires, so full motor power is seperated from the switch side.
Having had one apart (typical electronic engineer !) all it is is a changeover relay wired so that the switch applies power to the motor correctly for up or down control.
Install meant confirming what wire did what, cutting off the old plug and soldering (prefered to crimping) the wires.
So far no problem with the unit, infact have a spare for when the driver side electronics fail.

Thanks for this

Looking back at the picture of the winder mechanism, it looks like there is no 'control electronics' fitted.
So any 'electronic control' might be back inside one of the ECU's.
Have a look back at a post I did last year titled:

Ducato 2007 X250 passenger window regulator problem fixed​

This shows the two different types of electronics fitted to an X250, which may also apply to an X230. The two types are not interchangable without major work somewhere on the ECU's. I did not go there !.
Now my van is in the time zone where it was probably an X244 build but badged as an X250 so lots of things are 'not quite right' when you come to do work on it.

Basically I had the module fitted as per the first picture. Had all sorts of problems with the window which ended up with the unit failing.
Bought a second unit as per the second picture, which only applied power to the motor and no up/down control.

This is where the Ebay bought module comes in.
Basically it has a main (12Volt) supply, and control wires, so full motor power is seperated from the switch side.
Having had one apart (typical electronic engineer !) all it is is a changeover relay wired so that the switch applies power to the motor correctly for up or down control.
Install meant confirming what wire did what, cutting off the old plug and soldering (prefered to crimping) the wires.
So far no problem with the unit, infact have a spare for when the driver side electronics fail.

, I will need to have another look at the universal kit I bought to see if it has a module in the loom, I don't think it did unless there is something in the switches, as far as I remember it was just a case of attaching it to 12v and the up down was done via switching

 

[Communicator]

The x244 model uses a common module (ABI) for central locking, and electric windows. Sometimes referred to as a "comfort module", this unit is hidden behind the glovebox.
However it is an enigma in that the connector and wiring details do not to match those shown in eLearn.

Photos, and annoted copy of eLearn diagram attached.

 

[Ronnie63]

The x244 model uses a common module (ABI) for central locking, and electric windows. Sometimes referred to as a "comfort module", this unit is hidden behind the glovebox.
However it is an enigma in that the connector and wiring details do not to match those shown in eLearn.

Photos, and annoted copy of eLearn diagram attached.

Thank you, at the time I tried to fit the universal window kit I fitted a central locking kit, this works very well, one of the problems was routing the wires from the door to the A pillar! could not find a suitable rubber sleeve to protect the wires.

When I add the window motors I have ordered some rubber universal door to A post sleeves roughly or best I could find for the hole sizes in the door and A pillar of coarse the holes are not the same size!

The window wiring kit has an inline fuse but no other module, I hope to take a feed from the fuse box where if it had electric windows it would be the fuse used.

Thanks Ronnie