Technical 2002 Ducato Campervan battery draining

[Russellz]

Hi

I have a Campervan built on an 2002 LHD Ducato 1.9TD chassis. If I park it for more than about a week without connecting to the mains ( for the built in charger) the engine battery goes flat.

I have checked and, with everything switched off there is a current drain of 0.4 A from the battery. I have tried disconnecting the engine battery from the domestic distribution board and the drain continues. My next thought was the reversing camera which is connected in the cab but disconnecting that has no effect. I have also checked the current through each fuse in the glove compartment and everything is in order there.

So the current drain is somewhere in the cab. Any ideas where to look? I note from the Panasonic radio installation sheet that there are two 12 V connections, one being controlled by the ignition switch and one permanent. Is it possible that whoever installed it has those connections swapped - but how to get at them?

Any ideas appreciated.

Russell

 

[jontee61]

is your van alarmed ????

 

[ff1963]

Right just a thought has the rv got stereos.
With memory save. Or any clocks as these use batt power.
What about water level indicators or waist as these will also cause drain.
Alarms or such like. Put a 10 amp meter between the battery pole & remove the fuses in the cab one at a time.
If you see no difference do the same in the rear living as well it only takes a cross over of a feed wire and all hell breaks loose
also if the amps are different in motor battery than living separate them with relays to shut off when not running.
I had a auto relay and it caused very similar problems. was not cheap either
good luck

 

[Russellz]

is your van alarmed ????

No. Just a sticker saying that it is!

Russell

 

[Russellz]

First thanks for all your suggestions

Right just a thought has the rv got stereos.
With memory save. Or any clocks as these use batt power.

Only in the cab. I'm waiting for the radio removal keys to arrive via Ebay to try removing the radio. The clock is still working but should only use a few mA.

What about water level indicators or waist as these will also cause drain.
Alarms or such like.

Those are run off the leisure battery and are all controlled by a control panel and distribution box made by CBE Elettronica in Italy along with the mains battery charger. It is a cleverly designed unit that isolates the leisure battery from the engine battery when the engine is stopped. The solar panel only charges the leisure battery. The battery charger charges both. When the engine is running the alternator charges both batteries.

Put a 10 amp meter between the battery pole & remove the fuses in the cab one at a time.

Done that, removing all the fuses in the glove box. Are there any fuses under the bonnet? I couldn't see any.

If you see no difference do the same in the rear living as well it only takes a cross over of a feed wire and all hell breaks loose

I disconnected the engine battery from the living area distribution box and it had no effect.

also if the amps are different in motor battery than living separate them with relays to shut off when not running.

That's controlled by the distribution box

I had a auto relay and it caused very similar problems. was not cheap either
good luck

Thanks, I need it!

Russell

 

[rjc]

I had a problem with the battery draining while stopped, it turned out that the previous idiot owner of my camper had wired the radio to be always on stand-by so he could turn it on with remote from the bed. This left nothing lit up to show it was on but caused a steady slow drain, stand-by is not off. Easy to test, just use the remote. Took me a few months catch on though!

Cheers
Richard

 

[Russellz]

I had a problem with the battery draining while stopped, it turned out that the previous idiot owner of my camper had wired the radio to be always on stand-by so he could turn it on with remote from the bed. This left nothing lit up to show it was on but caused a steady slow drain, stand-by is not off. Easy to test, just use the remote. Took me a few months catch on though!

My radio extraction tools arrived today so I was able to remove the radio and disconnect it. That reduced the current drain from 410 mA to 380 mA so, yes, it is draining the battery but only accounts for less than 1/10 th of the current drain I'm seeing.

Can't think what to try next :bang:

Russell

 

[murfman53]

Hi Russellz,

Have you looked at your battery voltage before start up. then start your engine up,

and see if the alternator is putting in the correct charge. I appreciate the battery is

draining voltage current in some circuit, but the charging system must be working at

optimum.

As have some members have mentioned checking fuses are a must. I'd be more

inclined to leave all fuses in place, and then check them. Looking closely at the fuse,

you'll see 2 little pips at the fuse, these are where you place your multimeter

leads across.

You should see 0. Any fuse that gives any reading other than 0 is the culprit.

This will be your starting point. There might be other fuses that were put in, maybe by

the previous owner, for additional accessories. Only you can confirm if this is the case.

I'd would disconnect leisure battery, then check engine battery circuits. If all is well,

disconnect the engine battery, and connect leisure battery and check fuses that the

leisure battery controls, making sure everything is turned off. Zig units usually have

fuses located there.

At 380mA, do you know what sort of figure you'd expect to see when everything is

working well...............100mA...75mA...50mA?

The smaller the better of coarse.

John.

 

[murfman53]

Hi,

Have you disconnected your Panasonic radio. Sometimes aftermarket radios can

draw current.

John.

 

[murfman53]

Hi,

Have you disconnected your Panasonic radio. Sometimes aftermarket radios can

draw current.

John.

Hi,

Sorry for asking, I see you've already done that.

John.

 

[Russellz]

Hi John,

Thanks for your comments.

I checked the battery voltage before starting - 11.8 V (having been connected to an automatic float charger)
With engine running - 13.8 V.

At 380 mA discharge standing for one week would drain 63 Ah, a bit much for a 75 Ah battery! I would expect to be able to leave it for a month with no more than 25% loss of battery capacity so about 30 mA should be the maximum.

I have disconnected the engine battery from the domestic distribution board and the discharge is still there. I think the only reasons for it to be connected there is for the mains operated charger to charge both batteries and for the remote battery voltage monitoring circuit.

It is, of course, possible that a previous owner has connected something incorrectly but I have disconnected everything I can think of such as the reversing camera and the television.

Russell

 

[blaven]

How old is your battery? 11.8v is very low and indicates it’s dead or dying. No 12v battery should be discharged below about 12.4v for any length of time without irreversible damage. If the battery is faulty it will be throwing a huge strain on your alternator and it will fail prematurely. Much cheaper to buy a new battery than a new alternator. An alternator should charge your battery in excess of 14v.

 

[murfman53]

Hi Russell,

My brother had a 92 fiat toledo deflepps camper, which drawing amps. After checking

all the fuses, we discovered that the relay situated on the charging circuit for the

leisure battery was stuck closed. This resulted in the leisure battery taking amps from

the engine battery, and in no time flattened it. Is your leisure battery always fully

charged do you know?

Another method to check for amp draw, would be to leave everything connected but

have all circuits OFF. Have both batteries connected, then set your multimeter to

mvolts then go to each fuse, but do not remove them, and see your readings on each

fuse. Anything other than O mvolts will mean current flow.

If all your fuses read O, then I'd pay close attention to the path between the 2

batteries. One question for you russell, can you recall when this problem appeared?

As blaven has said, 11.8 is low, but this could be the current draw. As you say when

engine running battery is at 13.8 volts, still a little low, but good enough to start the

engine.

Stick with it Russell you'll get there, and then you'll kick yourself how a simple fault

caused such a headache.

John.

 

[murfman53]

hi Russell,

Here's a link to split charging systems used on campers.

Its an interesting read.

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/split-charging.html

You'll might make out which system you're camper uses.

John.

 

[digger58]

I think it's fair to say most parasitic drains are due to aftermarket radios and alarms. Campers are a nightmare, I spent 3 hrs chasing one wire in mine, turned out there was an inline fuse below the original fuse box in the Ducato. No wiring diagram and lots of same colour wires in the loom installed by the builders. Pick a free day and a decent multimeter!

 

[kconnell]

I bought a Winnebago on a 2005 Ducato last year and had exactly your problem. The guy I bought it off had not used it for the previous year or so. I charged the engine battery and all good - started, ran, OK if restarted within a few days otherwise too flat. The battery looked brand new but I had no paperwork to be sure. I put it in to the auto-electrician and he said he could find no appreciable leakage. He suggested it was a faulty cell in battery even though it checked out OK. Bit the bullet and put in a new battery and all is well. If you have less than 12.8v on float charge either your charger is faulty or you also have a faulty cell in battery I suspect? That was over 1 year ago and never had an issue since.

 

[Russellz]

How old is your battery? 11.8v is very low and indicates it’s dead or dying.

The battery is only one year old. Yes, 11.8 V is too low. The battery charging system in the camper is rather complicated but should charge both batteries. The mains battery charger has a maximum output of 15 A but the charge for the engine battery is limited to 2 A according to the specs. It is an intelligent charger that charges the leisure battery to 14.5 V then float charges at 13.8 V.

Russell

 

[Russellz]

Hi Russell,

My brother had a 92 fiat toledo deflepps camper, which drawing amps. After checking

all the fuses, we discovered that the relay situated on the charging circuit for the

leisure battery was stuck closed. This resulted in the leisure battery taking amps from

the engine battery, and in no time flattened it. Is your leisure battery always fully

charged do you know?

Yes, the built-in battery charger keeps it at 13.8 V. The relay is opening O.K. otherwise the two batteries would have the same voltage. When the engine is running the two batteries read the same voltage so it closes properly.

Another method to check for amp draw, would be to leave everything connected but

have all circuits OFF. Have both batteries connected, then set your multimeter to

mvolts then go to each fuse, but do not remove them, and see your readings on each

fuse. Anything other than O mvolts will mean current flow.

If all your fuses read O, then I'd pay close attention to the path between the 2

batteries.

I just removed each fuse in turn and used a multimeter on the current range in place of the fuse. One of the fuses in the cab was passing 10 mA which was probably the radio and shouldn't be a problem.

I have ordered a DC clamp meter so that I can check individual wires without disconnecting them which is difficult with multy-way connectors.

One question for you russell, can you recall when this problem appeared?

Difficult to say. I suspect it has been there since I bought the camper several years ago but has only just become apparent with a fault developing in the charging system as noted in my last post.

Russell

 

[Russellz]

hi Russell,

Here's a link to split charging systems used on campers.

Its an interesting read.

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/split-charging.html

You'll might make out which system you're camper uses.

John.

Thanks. Yes that is an interesting link.

My camper uses the split charge relay system (number 2 in that link) but with the added complication of a mains operated battery charger which charges both batteries, giving priority to the leisure battery. It is clearly faulty and needs further investigation but doesn't account for the mysterious current drain.

Russell

 

[Russellz]

I think it's fair to say most parasitic drains are due to aftermarket radios and alarms.

I've checked the radio and as far as I know there is no alarm, unless there is one well hidden somewhere that I don't know about.

Campers are a nightmare, I spent 3 hrs chasing one wire in mine, turned out there was an inline fuse below the original fuse box in the Ducato. No wiring diagram and lots of same colour wires in the loom installed by the builders. Pick a free day and a decent multimeter!

Yes, I had a similar problem some time ago when the leisure battery failed to a very low voltage and, when I started the engine, the engine battery was linked to the leisure battery and blew a 50 A fuse. I spent hours hours tracing the main feed wire inside the van and eventually found the fuse-holder riveted to the outside of the battery box under the van and covered in mud. The space between the battery box and part of the chassis was insufficient to get my hand in so I had to remove the battery and drill the rivets out from inside the battery box to remove it. Needless to say I found a better location for it!

Russell