Technical 2.8JTD cambelt time.

[Ocwobio]

Hello friends.
It's that time again, (well, last year actually) that I need to get a cambelt change. So, I'm in south Cheshire, and I'm looking for someone who can do the job, on personal recommendation from those with direct experience of using someone they are prepared to recommend. It's on an 05 Burstner i821, a tag axle, 28' A class, currently about 4.3t. I know Dave Newell in Telford, and Camper UK in Lincoln, the latter is too far plus they want ££££ and insist they won't do it without a waterpump replacement as well- which is unnecessary.

I'm looking for places in the areas between say Lancaster and Stafford. The issue is it's an A class, and some places I've been to have quoted and assured me they can do it, but when I get there and they see it's not a regular cab/bonnet area, they get cold feet and cry off. Hence looking for someone who knows the difference and has done them before. I've approached a few places, but they have all stopped replying to my emails!

Ideally I'd like to find a pl;ace closer to home (Crewe), also anyone had it done recently and at what cost?
Cheers'n'beers!

 

[mike800966]

I always understood that Dave Newell gave good advice, what does he say?
ATB Mike

 

[Ocwobio]

Hello friends.
It's that time again, (well, last year actually) that I need to get a cambelt change. So, I'm in south Cheshire, and I'm looking for someone who can do the job, on personal recommendation from those with direct experience of using someone they are prepared to recommend. It's on an 05 Burstner i821, a tag axle, 28' A class, currently about 4.3t. I know Dave Newell in Telford, and Camper UK in Lincoln, the latter is too far plus they want ££££ and insist they won't do it without a waterpump replacement as well- which is unnecessary.

I'm looking for places in the areas between say Lancaster and Stafford. The issue is it's an A class, and some places I've been to have quoted and assured me they can do it, but when I get there and they see it's not a regular cab/bonnet area, they get cold feet and cry off. Hence looking for someone who knows the difference and has done them before. I've approached a few places, but they have all stopped replying to my emails!

Ideally I'd like to find a pl;ace closer to home (Crewe), also anyone had it done recently and at what cost?
Cheers'n'beers!

Had my last one done there. I did ask to be booked in a few weeks ago, but got no reply, and as he is so busy, my ideal window will likely have passed.

 

[AxWomble]

I created an account specifically to answer this. I just did the cambelt on my 2001 2.8jtd, with a Hymer Luton motorhome body. The parts were a grand total of £85 for timing belt, auxiliary belt, and timing belt pulleys. It took me 5 gentle hours on the driveway, in the pouring rain.

If you can't find someone willing, but have done any cambelt before, I'd have confidence you can manage this one. Single cam, very simple.

I did it entirely from a very fuzzy Autodata scan from another thread on here and had no issues - I even found the elusive bellhousing hole through which the crank locking pin should be inserted. I found no evidence that anyone else has found it on this forum, or any other I could find, and most end up taking the starter motor off and jamming the ring gear in order to retighten the crank pulley bolt. The locking pin hole is on the front of the bell housing, and is visible from the top of the engine bay. An 8mm locking pin is needed - I bought the kit below for less than £10, and for the JTD you only need the middle two tools.

You'll also need a torque wrench that goes up to 200nm, a selection of metric spanners and sockets, a 13mm ratcheting spanner for the alternator tensioner, and ideally an impact wrench to remove the crank pulley bolt.

If you feel you'd rather get someone else to do it - perhaps join a few motorhome groups on Facebook, particularly for your brand, and ask which garages folks are using for their A-class vans?

 

[Ocwobio]

I created an account specifically to answer this. I just did the cambelt on my 2001 2.8jtd, with a Hymer Luton motorhome body. The parts were a grand total of £85 for timing belt, auxiliary belt, and timing belt pulleys. It took me 5 gentle hours on the driveway, in the pouring rain.

If you can't find someone willing, but have done any cambelt before, I'd have confidence you can manage this one. Single cam, very simple.

I did it entirely from a very fuzzy Autodata scan from another thread on here and had no issues - I even found the elusive bellhousing hole through which the crank locking pin should be inserted. I found no evidence that anyone else has found it on this forum, or any other I could find, and most end up taking the starter motor off and jamming the ring gear in order to retighten the crank pulley bolt. The locking pin hole is on the front of the bell housing, and is visible from the top of the engine bay. An 8mm locking pin is needed - I bought the kit below for less than £10, and for the JTD you only need the middle two tools.

You'll also need a torque wrench that goes up to 200nm, a selection of metric spanners and sockets, a 13mm ratcheting spanner for the alternator tensioner, and ideally an impact wrench to remove the crank pulley bolt.

If you feel you'd rather get someone else to do it - perhaps join a few motorhome groups on Facebook, particularly for your brand, and ask which garages folks are using for their A-class vans?

I last did a belt on a 1990 Renault Espace, back in the mid 90s! That was dead easy. I'm too old and knackered now to do one, I'm taking it in on Weds for done on Thursday. I'm in every forum relevant, and FB groups too, for a long time. Have asked there and no response. Never mind. It's an A class, with quite bad access, not a standard cab. That makes a huge difference. I'm having an INA belt and tensioners fitted. Have had Gates in the past, but their tensioners are a bit ropey now, apparently. INA seems to be the ones nowadays. FWIW, if yours is a 2001, is it really a JTD (common rail) engine, and not an iDTD? Didn't think the JTD had common rail if fitted back then?

 

[AxWomble]

I last did a belt on a 1990 Renault Espace, back in the mid 90s! That was dead easy. I'm too old and knackered now to do one, I'm taking it in on Weds for done on Thursday. I'm in every forum relevant, and FB groups too, for a long time. Have asked there and no response. Never mind. It's an A class, with quite bad access, not a standard cab. That makes a huge difference. I'm having an INA belt and tensioners fitted. Have had Gates in the past, but their tensioners are a bit ropey now, apparently. INA seems to be the ones nowadays. FWIW, if yours is a 2001, is it really a JTD (common rail) engine, and not an iDTD? Didn't think the JTD had common rail if fitted back then?

Excellent - glad you're sorted out for this week.

Regarding your question about JTD vs iDTD. It's a 230 series van (old shape, old lights) but has the commonrail JTD, making it Euro 3 compliant and therefore not liable for a £100/day charge in London. It's also a lot easier to change tbe belt, because the pump isnt timed.

I've seen very few 230 series vans with commonrail, and think ours must have been one of the last before they swapped over to the 244 series chassis.

 

[Communicator]

I last did a belt on a 1990 Renault Espace, back in the mid 90s! That was dead easy. I'm too old and knackered now to do one, I'm taking it in on Weds for done on Thursday. I'm in every forum relevant, and FB groups too, for a long time. Have asked there and no response. Never mind. It's an A class, with quite bad access, not a standard cab. That makes a huge difference. I'm having an INA belt and tensioners fitted. Have had Gates in the past, but their tensioners are a bit ropey now, apparently. INA seems to be the ones nowadays. FWIW, if yours is a 2001, is it really a JTD (common rail) engine, and not an iDTD? Didn't think the JTD had common rail if fitted back then?

The 2.8jtd was introduced in 2000, but production probably started in 1999. I have previously exchanged posts with the owner of a 1999 registered x230, who confirmed that it was fitted with the 2.8jtd engine. Probably a rare example. At the other end of the scale, with motorhome conversions, when the base vehicle is ordered in advance, add in construction, and sales delays, the result can be first registration two years later than manufacture.

 

[Ocwobio]

Excellent - glad you're sorted out for this week.

Regarding your question about JTD vs iDTD. It's a 230 series van (old shape, old lights) but has the commonrail JTD, making it Euro 3 compliant and therefore not liable for a £100/day charge in London. It's also a lot easier to change tbe belt, because the pump isnt timed.

I've seen very few 230 series vans with commonrail, and think ours must have been one of the last before they swapped over to the 244 series chassis.

Does indeed sound like a crossover model then. What's the score with the ulez and e3 thing? Did the later jtd (like mine) incur the charge? Presume it's a 2.8? Or did they do a 2.3 in jtd? Anyway, belt job may get put back as i can't contact storage owners- they have a van and like to get out too!

 

[jackwhoo]

I created an account specifically to answer this. I just did the cambelt on my 2001 2.8jtd, with a Hymer Luton motorhome body. The parts were a grand total of £85 for timing belt, auxiliary belt, and timing belt pulleys. It took me 5 gentle hours on the driveway, in the pouring rain.

If you can't find someone willing, but have done any cambelt before, I'd have confidence you can manage this one. Single cam, very simple.

I did it entirely from a very fuzzy Autodata scan from another thread on here and had no issues - I even found the elusive bellhousing hole through which the crank locking pin should be inserted. I found no evidence that anyone else has found it on this forum, or any other I could find, and most end up taking the starter motor off and jamming the ring gear in order to retighten the crank pulley bolt. The locking pin hole is on the front of the bell housing, and is visible from the top of the engine bay. An 8mm locking pin is needed - I bought the kit below for less than £10, and for the JTD you only need the middle two tools.

You'll also need a torque wrench that goes up to 200nm, a selection of metric spanners and sockets, a 13mm ratcheting spanner for the alternator tensioner, and ideally an impact wrench to remove the crank pulley bolt.

If you feel you'd rather get someone else to do it - perhaps join a few motorhome groups on Facebook, particularly for your brand, and ask which garages folks are using for their A-class vans?

Hi,
Have you got the photo of the locking hole in the bellhousing to post yet?
Cheers

 

[puntodad19]

Is that timing hole and pin capable of holding crank in position whilst crank bolt is undone/done UP i wonder ?

Is crank pulley "keyed" ?

 

[jackwhoo]

Is that timing hole and pin capable of holding crank in position whilst crank bolt is undone/done UP i wonder ?

Is crank pulley "keyed" ?

I wouldn't use flywheel timing lock pin to hold while undoing crank bolt. Doing so is asking for a world of pain

 

[Communicator]

Does indeed sound like a crossover model then. What's the score with the ulez and e3 thing? Did the later jtd (like mine) incur the charge? Presume it's a 2.8? Or did they do a 2.3 in jtd? Anyway, belt job may get put back as i can't contact storage owners- they have a van and like to get out too!

The 2.0jtd, 2.3jtd, and 2.8jtd were introduced to the Ducato model (x230) in 2000. The x230 morphed into the x244, in 2002. The change is frequently described as a "facelift", but there was more to it than that, as different wiring, and a new gearbox were included. With the wiring changes a standard 16 pin OBD2 connector replaced the earlier 2 pin OBD interface, That being said, in my opinion the jtd engines were "dropped" into the existing x230 frame, with only necessary wiring, and other modifications. To me a crossover model would be an x230 with the later gearbox, or the reverse of that

@AxWomble clearly stated in post #4 that his vehicle is a 2001 (x230) 2,8jtd., However I do not think that he fully appreciates the restricted access when working on an "A" class.

 

[AxWomble]

Does indeed sound like a crossover model then. What's the score with the ulez and e3 thing? Did the later jtd (like mine) incur the charge? Presume it's a 2.8? Or did they do a 2.3 in jtd? Anyway, belt job may get put back as i can't contact storage owners- they have a van and like to get out too!

If registered as a van from 1.205t unladen up to 3.5t gross (like many motorhomes are), then the minimum emissions requirement for the LEZ is Euro 3 - if not, then the minimum LEZ charge is £100 per day that you drive.

The ULEZ is technically a different zone, with different rules, although it is geographically similar. The charge is only £12.50 per day, but for a diesel you must be Euro 6 compliant (2016 onwards, roughly speaking) to get away without paying.

 

[AxWomble]

Hi,
Have you got the photo of the locking hole in the bellhousing to post yet?
Cheers

Apologies - only just got round to this. Hopefully this will help other members in future. This is standing on the passenger side of the engine bay, looking down at the front of the gearbox. I've also added a picture of our engine number plate, to allow others to compare - I appreciate that variations of the same unit may not have this locking hole present.

 

[AxWomble]

Is that timing hole and pin capable of holding crank in position whilst crank bolt is undone/done UP i wonder ?

Is crank pulley "keyed" ?

The Autodata manual suggests that this is the correct procedure. I used an impact wrench to undo the crank pulley bolt without locking the flywheel, but if you did not have one of these, you would be forced to use a breaker bar with the locking pin in place.

As for tightening the crank pulley bolt at the end of the job - you have little choice (if working alone) than to install the flywheel locking pin and use an appropriate torque wrench to tighten it up. The pin is pretty beefy, and goes what feels like a decent depth into the flywheel, so I'd have fair confidence in it standing up to this without damage. It's also what the manual suggests - and you'd hope it would be correct. I would not advise using an impact wrench for tightening, as there would be an increased risk of bending/shearing it, as Jackwhoo suggests.

The crank pulley is not keyed - hence the high torque figure, I suppose.

NB - the locking pin (8mm, perhaps) is a very tight fit, and the hole must be cleared before it'll fit - not a surprise, as it is in an exposed location at the front of the engine bay.

 

[jackwhoo]

I

The Autodata manual suggests that this is the correct procedure. I used an impact wrench to undo the crank pulley bolt without locking the flywheel, but if you did not have one of these, you would be forced to use a breaker bar with the locking pin in place.

As for tightening the crank pulley bolt at the end of the job - you have little choice (if working alone) than to install the flywheel locking pin and use an appropriate torque wrench to tighten it up. The pin is pretty beefy, and goes what feels like a decent depth into the flywheel, so I'd have fair confidence in it standing up to this without damage. It's also what the manual suggests - and you'd hope it would be correct. I would not advise using an impact wrench for tightening, as there would be an increased risk of bending/shearing it, as Jackwhoo suggests.

The crank pulley is not keyed - hence the high torque figure, I suppose.

View attachment 482237

Hi,
Thank you for very helpful photos and image of book, if it hadn't been shown in book I would not have believed locking hole in correct place to engage flywheel.
Very best wishes
Jack

 

[AxWomble]

The 2.0jtd, 2.3jtd, and 2.8jtd were introduced to the Ducato model (x230) in 2000. The x230 morphed into the x244, in 2002. The change is frequently described as a "facelift", but there was more to it than that, as different wiring, and a new gearbox were included. With the wiring changes a standard 16 pin OBD2 connector replaced the earlier 2 pin OBD interface, That being said, in my opinion the jtd engines were "dropped" into the existing x230 frame, with only necessary wiring, and other modifications. To me a crossover model would be an x230 with the later gearbox, or the reverse of that

@AxWomble clearly stated in post #4 that his vehicle is a 2001 (x230) 2,8jtd., However I do not think that he fully appreciates the restricted access when working on an "A" class.

Indeed. Our van has the earlier (reverse is to the right and down) gearchange, with 2 pin diagnostics - MultiECUScan is a vital tool for this!

I can appreciate the restricted access afford by an A-Class - and understand why many garages balk at the idea of working on such vans. At the root of it, though, this is about the simplest cambelt to do - once you (literally!) get past any access difficulties.

 

[AxWomble]

I

Hi,
Thank you for very helpful photos and image of book, if it hadn't been shown in book I would not have believed locking hole in correct place to engage flywheel.
Very best wishes
Jack

No problem. It seems to have disappeared from the forum post where I found it last week, so I was relieved to have saved it both to my computer, and also to have printed off a hard copy. The locking pin hole is in a very strange place, and took me a long time to find as a result - but I really wanted to avoid removing the starter and risking breaking starter ring teeth with a homemade tool. You can actually access the pin hole from the top of the engine bay, which makes the initial alignment/locking procedure much easier than if you were rolling around under the van, as I did.

 

[Communicator]

No problem. It seems to have disappeared from the forum post where I found it last week, so I was relieved to have saved it both to my computer, and also to have printed off a hard copy. The locking pin hole is in a very strange place, and took me a long time to find as a result - but I really wanted to avoid removing the starter and risking breaking starter ring teeth with a homemade tool. You can actually access the pin hole from the top of the engine bay, which makes the initial alignment/locking procedure much easier than if you were rolling around under the van, as I did.

Info appreciated. Presumably pin locks flywheel at No. 1 TDC. I assume that you use the camshaft markings to locate the crankshaft position, as crankshaft timing marks are obscured until pulley is removed. This means that you do not have the pulley bolt to bar the engine into position. I may try to use the hole next time around, if I am still fit enough. However I doubt that you would shear a toth from the sterter ring, when re-torquing the crankshaft pulley bolt.

 

[AxWomble]

Info appreciated. Presumably pin locks flywheel at No. 1 TDC. I assume that you use the camshaft markings to locate the crankshaft position, as crankshaft timing marks are obscured until pulley is removed. This means that you do not have the pulley bolt to bar the engine into position. I may try to use the hole next time around, if I am still fit enough. However I doubt that you would shear a toth from the sterter ring, when re-torquing the crankshaft pulley bolt.

I'm not sure RE TDC - I guess you'd need to remove injector or glowplug to test, and I had no need of knowing.

Yes - I turned the engine over on the crank bolt before removing the crank pulley, used the notch on the camshaft pulley as a rough guide, and then was able to lock the flywheel with the pin. Then removed the crank pulley and lower covers and was able to verify using the markings on the cambelt pulley on the crankshaft.