Technical 1989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

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Technical 1989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Pinata

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Hi there,

After 3 months of sitting in driveway I'm trying to get her back on the road. Bought a new battery and turned her over and over and nearly got an idle. Then nothing, not even a clicking noise. Checked all fuses and they're fine. Did I wreck the starter motor trying to start her too feverishly? Any help would be much appreciated.
 
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Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Welcome fellow Kiwi :wave:

Check battery terminals. When you say 'nothing', are there still lights on the dash (no-charge and oil pressure)? If not, battery connections or earth cable (on gearbox) are suspects.

I doubt that the starter motor would suddenly stop like that as a result of over-use, but perhaps the brushes are nearly worn out. Try a tap with a hammer while someone else twists the key.

I wonder why it didn't start... there are always only two real causes, a lack of fuel or a lack of sparks. Take out a spark plug - is it wet with petrol? Rest the spark plug on the top of the engine, connect a lead, and get someone else to crank the engine over. Any sparks?

-Alex
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Hi,

Yeah there are still lights on the dash and the lights/indicators all go. Fuel could've been a bit stale. I'll try what you've suggested tomorrow after work and get back with the results.

Cheers mate!
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

We gave the starter some tapping while turning the key but nothing happened. The starter motor is in a tricky spot to get a good tap.

Gonna have to tow it to a garage I reckon.
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Aww come on mate, do it yourself! (as the kids on the Mitre 10 ad say) [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ9JH4CeSlo"]YouTube- Aussie Kids vs Kiwi Kids DIY - Mitre 10 Commercial[/nomedia]
:)

There is a chance that the starter switch (on the ignition key switch) is faulty, so to eliminate that possibility, connect a wire to the small push-on terminal on the starter motor, then touch that wire to the positive battery terminal. Starter motor should run - if not, pull it off and fix it (or fit a replacement).

The starter motor is easy enough to unbolt (13mm bolts and the 13mm nut on the high-current cable; remember to disconnect the battery first).

There's a good chance the brushes will be stuffed (and a trip to an auto electrician will provide replacements, anything reasonably close can be filed down to fit and soldered on with a big soldering iron).

Best of luck (have you tried a push-start yet? If you do, I suggest third gear, much kinder to the transmission. Remember to pull the choke out too...)

-Alex
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Ha ha,

Yeah you're right..what was I thinking...garage! no ways man.

So we attached a multi meter to the small pull off ignition cable and it gave 12.5 so the prob must be with the starter. We took that out (pretty fiddly) and now we've got a starter motor on the dining table and about to operate.

Thanks for the kick up the ....

Will prob have a few question re Brushes soon.

mark
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Hi again,

We don't have the equipment to fix brushes. Can you recommend any fiat parts specialists in NZ? Will have a look on Trademe

Cheers
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Hey man, if you can take the brush out and take it to a parts shop, they can scratch in their bins for a similar sized one. You might have to file it a bit here and there to make it fit like the original. I've done this on a 72 mercedes once when they quoted us a rediculous price on the replacement OEM part. Got brushes from a mazda 323 which fited almost perfectly, and then I just shaped it some more.

I do have a question about starters though. I can hear my starter takeing a second or two to release from the flywheel when I start up in the morning. Are there any serviceable parts for that. or does it need replacement? It starts fine and all, but it doesn't do much for peace of mind.
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

Hi there,

I took the whole starter into an auto electricain and it turns out we had burnt out the driver trying to start the car up. Idiots. So that was our fault. But now we still can't get it firing. Will clean the plugs tomorrow and check for good airflow. Might even get the calves warmed up with a push start. Keep the back straight and drive!
 
Re: !989 Uno Fire Starting Problem

I do have a question about starters though. I can hear my starter takeing a second or two to release from the flywheel when I start up in the morning. Are there any serviceable parts for that. or does it need replacement? It starts fine and all, but it doesn't do much for peace of mind.

That's just the grease/oil/dirt on the splines and inside the pinion where it slides on the shaft, causing it to drag instead of releasing sharply. Basically, some types of grease are not really suitable for this application, and after being mixed with a bit of clutch dust, they become much too sticky.

So, just take the starter motor off and clean it (with brake cleaner or similar), and then re-lubricate. I use CV joint grease, but a bit of oil/lubricating spray is probably fine too.

Glad to hear Pinata has sorted out the starter and is back to finding the next no-start cause...

-Alex
 
I wonder why it didn't start... there are always only two real causes, a lack of fuel or a lack of sparks. Take out a spark plug - is it wet with petrol? Rest the spark plug on the top of the engine, connect a lead, and get someone else to crank the [COLOR=#F77E1D ! important][COLOR=#F77E1D ! important]engine[/COLOR][/COLOR]
over. Any sparks?

HI Alex,

So, we bought some new spark plugs but still it wouldn't fire so we took Number One plug out and turned it over (as you suggested above)(y). There was a spark and more interestingly, the car let roar on three cylinders! Sweet as, no choke and no feathering the gas pedal.

BUT, when I stuck the plug back in, the car just turns over a couple of times and stops with a bit of a cough. What's the plan now ya reckon? Just for interests sake, what's your recommended cold start procedure?

Any help would once again be appreciated. My girlfriend and I will be biking to work this week!
 
It's a bit bizarre but I wonder if the ignition timing is too far advanced. That causes the spark plug to fire against the rising piston, which stops the cranking of the engine with a 'cough'. Perhaps when you removed that plug, the engine spun over just fast enough for the other spark plugs to fire at an appropriate time.

Ideally you should set the timing with a timing light (the thing that you clip onto a spark plug lead, connect to the battery as well, and then shine on some marks when the engine's running) but this is fast becoming an obsolete piece of workshop equipment as modern engines don't have adjustable timing. The FIRE does, so here's what I suggest:

  1. Mark the position of the distributor - scratch a line across the join between the cylinder head and the distributor body
  2. Slacken the two nuts that hold the distributor in place (one top, one bottom)
  3. Rotate the distributor anticlockwise (i.e. roll towards the front of the car) to about halfway along the slotted holes (of the two threaded studs that hold the distributor in place). As in, adjust it to the middle of its adjustment range.
  4. Try to start the engine again
  5. If it all goes pear-shaped, at least you can return the distributor to its original position and try something else...

You'll notice that the more clockwise the distributor is (advanced timing) the faster the engine will run, but the harder it may be to start, and the exhaust will have an uneven, popping noise. The more anticlockwise (retarded), the slower the engine will idle and the exhaust will have more of a chugging noise. Obviously, you want some happy medium in between.

Often the vacuum advance capsule fails (do a search for that term on this forum if you want to know more) and people set the timing too far advanced to compensate for the lack of the vacuum advance.

If you do get the engine to run, then perhaps drive to someone who can set the timing accurately with a timing light, but make sure that vacuum advance is working properly first. Take off the pipe from the capsule on the side of the distributor and cover the end (to prevent air getting in). The engine will be idling at a certain speed. If you put the pipe on and the speed increases, that probably means it's working correctly. If you put the pipe on and the effect is the same as if you leave the end of the pipe open, that probably means the diaphragm inside the capsule has split. It can't be easily repaired - get a replacement (from Italian Autos in Otahuhu, etc.)

Cold start procedure - the FIRE usually requires choke to start and run (otherwise they have an odd habit of starting, then immediately stopping). In the winter particularly, the choke needs to be left on while you drive away and for the first few blocks. It's a good idea to have a working thermostat, so the engine warms up nicely and then the choke can be pushed in sooner (plus, the heater will work better).

So - vacuum advance capsule and thermostat... in my experience, the two things most likely to require attention on an Uno FIRE... :eek: Neither of which explain why yours won't run, but if the timing is wrong it could be a result of someone tinkering with it after the vacuum advance stopped working (as I mentioned above).

-Alex
 
is it possible that the timing is set to the max advance? i have an 1.0 fire with marelli 101A distributor. can't move it any more clockwise for advance but when i move it half way or a little bit less anti clockwise it's too much, lose power and so. so i fixed it a little bit retarded than before.
 
Fiat is go! Firing order was wrong. Leads needed swapping around. So simple.:bang: Sorry for the wild goose chase.

Gotta say this forum is fantastic, so much knowledge, so much help.

Now to find out where all that oil is coming from...
 
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