Hope so too - though I believe the brakes on these cars were never that great even when new.
Chris
Technical 1970 Fiat 500 F Brakes
- Thread starter Labman
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Technical 1970 Fiat 500 F Brakes
Hope so too - though I believe the brakes on these cars were never that great even when new.
Chris
OP
OP
New brake lines have arrived and I will be installing today. I will leave a follow up post.
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H A
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Mine work very well indeed, as I found out today when someone pulled out in front of me.
All 4 will lock up and you can stop in a very short distance.
I watched the rolling road reading at the MOT, very consistent figures.
H A
Fair enough
But are they OK in the wet and how much do they fade, say for example, coming down from the Dolomites after a holiday with the family onboard?
Chris
But are they OK in the wet and how much do they fade, say for example, coming down from the Dolomites after a holiday with the family onboard?
Chris
As has been correctly observed the performance of the 500 brakes is poor when shoes have been replaced and can be excellent when bedded in.
Fiat have been quite generous in the sizing of the drums given the modest weight and performance of the vehicle- if you compare the diameter of the drums they are virtually the same as a contemporary Mini or Morris Minor.
I have owned and extensively driven multiple 500's with drum and disc brakes and am quite content with the performance of the drums- had no cause for concern through the Swiss Alps or on the Autostradas in my fully loaded 500F with standard brakes- pulled it down from 80MPH in wet and dry fully loaded with no issues.
I have Kevlar shoes in the front of my Giardiniera which is running 126 brakes all round and it pulls up very well and progressively in wet and dry- I didn't find the discs were much of an advantage for anything other than locking at the front in wet weather...
Tyre sizing, condition and pressure are very important to get good braking performance- the 125x12's work well wet and dry- I have tended to find that wider tyres can tend to actually reduce braking efficiency it the wet as does too much pressure in the front tyres.
The 500's I have experienced with best braking efficiency and least pedal travel are ones that live in hilly areas- if you want 500 brakes to work best use them as hard and often as possible!
Fiat have been quite generous in the sizing of the drums given the modest weight and performance of the vehicle- if you compare the diameter of the drums they are virtually the same as a contemporary Mini or Morris Minor.
I have owned and extensively driven multiple 500's with drum and disc brakes and am quite content with the performance of the drums- had no cause for concern through the Swiss Alps or on the Autostradas in my fully loaded 500F with standard brakes- pulled it down from 80MPH in wet and dry fully loaded with no issues.
I have Kevlar shoes in the front of my Giardiniera which is running 126 brakes all round and it pulls up very well and progressively in wet and dry- I didn't find the discs were much of an advantage for anything other than locking at the front in wet weather...
Tyre sizing, condition and pressure are very important to get good braking performance- the 125x12's work well wet and dry- I have tended to find that wider tyres can tend to actually reduce braking efficiency it the wet as does too much pressure in the front tyres.
The 500's I have experienced with best braking efficiency and least pedal travel are ones that live in hilly areas- if you want 500 brakes to work best use them as hard and often as possible!
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OP
OP
Rear brake lines changed and bled but not much of a difference
I am going for a nice long drive today and hopefully they will bed as stated above. If not then I may have to do a power bleed or think about changing the master cylinder.
I am going for a nice long drive today and hopefully they will bed as stated above. If not then I may have to do a power bleed or think about changing the master cylinder.
H A
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I would change the master cylinder , they are so cheap, and not hard to do.
My view on brakes is they need to be perfect, I have had a master cylinder failure in the past, using the hand brake to stop is exciting.
On mine I replaced everything except the back plates and drums, total cost about £120, money well spent I would say.
H A
My view on brakes is they need to be perfect, I have had a master cylinder failure in the past, using the hand brake to stop is exciting.
On mine I replaced everything except the back plates and drums, total cost about £120, money well spent I would say.
H A
OP
OP
OP
OP
So I ordered a new MC and upon installing it, my original brake switch would not screw into it. So I had to order a new one and now waiting to receive it. Always a delay!
This does sometimes happen- you can unscrew the end cap from the master cylinder that your original switch was threaded into and swap it over to the new master cylinder if you don't want to wait...
It seems a bit strange that it doesn't fit- Unless you have a 500R (no switch hole or thread) they should be all much the same, unless somebody has re-tapped the end plug to a different thread for an alternative brake switch.
It seems a bit strange that it doesn't fit- Unless you have a 500R (no switch hole or thread) they should be all much the same, unless somebody has re-tapped the end plug to a different thread for an alternative brake switch.
OP
OP
So I received the brake switch and of course it still didn't fit! Turned out I received a badly threaded end cap. I had to go buy a 10mm-1.00 tap and repair the threads.
MC installed, bled the brakes and still the pedal goes almost all the way to the floor. What now? Couldn't there still be air in the system?
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the hobbler
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If you are going to buy a new condenser, get the 'Swiftune' competition condenser---a bit more expensive than a normal one, but built for competition engines that have to retain their original ignition system, so built to a high standard. I have fitted one, had no further condenser problems. You may have to extend the 'power' lead to the new condenser, and I screwed it (with a slightly longer screw) in the same place as the original.
the hobbler
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Sorry lads, due to aged fingers, this has ended up on wrong site--should be on 'No Power'
What happens when you quickly pump the pedal? Does it firm up then?
If not, then you've still got a major leak somewhere. If yes start bleeding again. This time start with the fronts, and with a helper on the brake pedal only open bleed valve on the downstroke and close before pedal release.
Then once both fronts are done, move to rear and start again. Bleed both rears and then back to front to bleed them both again.
H A
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My kids are well versed in the "Up, Up Down, Down" routine. They both get roped in at brake bleeding time, one on the pedal and one on the reservoir top up, the reservoirs are so small it is easy to introduce air if the level drops too low.
As Steve said rapid pumps and hold down usually gets things moving.
Not sure why you are having a problem, unless there is a fundamental error.
Good luck and keep going.
H A
As Steve said rapid pumps and hold down usually gets things moving.
Not sure why you are having a problem, unless there is a fundamental error.
Good luck and keep going.
H A
OP
OP
Bought a vacuum bleeder kit from my local auto parts shop and gave that a whirl. Still no pressure on the brake pedal. Not sure what else to do. Air still getting in the system somehow?
Is there supposed to be a clamp on the hose that goes to the reservoir on the nipple? It's the only thing I can think of. I'm at my whits end now.
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Is there supposed to be a clamp on the hose that goes to the reservoir on the nipple? It's the only thing I can think of. I'm at my whits end now.
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Yes definitely meant to be a clip at the reservoir. It even looks from your picture that there used to be one there before from the indentation in the pipe.
I know it won't be easy but I would trim the end off that pipe at the reservoir to remove the indentation in the pipe. That old Cavis pipe goes really brittle over the years especially at the ends where it has been clamped previously or to be 100% sure replace it with some modern stuff, it only runs down into the central tunnel.
H A
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Mine have a windy metal strip clamp, like a split pin head.
This is low pressure at that point, and if it is not leaking there under gravity, it is not your problem.
I would put a clamp on it for good measure.
Have run out of ideas, it is such a simple system being just a single circuit.
The vacuum bleeding kit should make it very easy, I have used them with tricky dual circuit systems, when the usual method failed.
Did Fiat adapt the brake system for the US market, are there any different bits?
H A
