Technical (183A1000 1.8) Timing belt teeth help!

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Technical (183A1000 1.8) Timing belt teeth help!

lpwwe06

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Hello guys, I'm now in the middle of assembling my fiat Punto HGT 1747 year 2000 ZFA188000*10191130
and I am very confused in the timing installation, I follow instructions that I found on AutoData but I still am a bit confused.

I ordered timing lock tools on eBay (even the gauge but I somehow managed to lose it.......!!) thing is the engine was over-heating and after gasket check I did I saw cyl. 3 is pushing air to the cooling system. replaced the gasket and now I cannot put the timing in confidence. Before I disassembled the timing I made sure to mark to myself where it was standing as the engine ran very good.

I ordered without know the Alfa Romeo 1.8 and 2.0 lock tools and the 1.4 and 1.6 lock tools. Which don't fit (a friend told me the 1.6 and 1.4 are same camshaft as the HGT Idk if it's true) anyway that friend hooked me up with a set that he used and when I settled his tools on the cams, the crankshaft was on almost 10 degrees off on the gearbox window where it's marking TDC and degrees before that.
How is that possible? the engine was not in timing?

The belt won't sit in marks too (crank on TDC and camshaft lock of that HGT that the m8 gave me) It's just one tooth off, and stupidly I cut the old timing belt and threw a piece of it by mistake away (I painted the gears of the cams with the old timing wrapped around..

Please I'll be very happy to know the timing teeth that the belt needs to be, or any other kind of help would be very appreciated. on eBay, I saw there are 2 models of timing belts, one with 166 and one with 168 and I really don't know what should be on my engine

If you need any picture just tell me and I immediately will upload.
Thank you very much.
 
You 'should' need the 168 tooth belt as your engine 'should' have the composite headgasket, not the mls gasket fitted to later engines. Which headgasket did you fit? Stick your chassis number into eper to double check.

The cam locking tools you need are for a Punto/Barchetta 1.8, apparently the 1.6TS cams are the same. You also need a proper tdc dial gauge to time this engine, none of the marks are any good.

The inlet cam sprocket is a vernier, you slacken off the four bolts, turn the cam sprocket fully clockwise, then you fit the belt and set the tensioner to max tension (as you do this the sprocket will rotate independently of the camshaft), then you tighten the four bolts up, take the locking tools off, rotate the engine two revolutions & check the locking tools still fit and tdc is still right. Set the tensioner to the dot, job done.

Strictly speaking your also meant to slacken off the exhaust cam sprocket as that has bit of movement too, i've never done that tbh & its ran fine.

Be careful as you can royally mess things up.
 
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I am not familiar with your engine but as far as I can tell you have fitted the belt and positioned the cams using some method (perhaps via the paint marks on the old belt) and then you find the timing tools show the timing is incorrect.


Can you clarify what you have done to give you the conclusion the timing tools give the wrong timing?
 
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First of all, I want to thank you as I appreciate your reply, very knowledgeable as I received a bit of false information about some points you mentioned.

You 'should' need the 168 tooth belt as your engine 'should' have the composite headgasket, not the mls gasket fitted to later engines. Which headgasket did you fit? Stick your chassis number into eper to double check.

Yes, I have checked with the seller on eBay that it DOES fit and it was sealed in the plastic wrapper so I strongly believe it was the composite head gasket. thank you. edit: and just checked on the listing of the product it says it is made of composite MATERIAL FIBRE/STEEL.

The cam locking tools you need are for a Punto/Barchetta 1.8, apparently the 1.6TS cams are the same. You also need a proper tdc dial gauge to time this engine, none of the marks are any good.

This is where things got a bit wrong, I rebuilt the back of my house (shop and studio area) while I was working on the HGT, somehow managed to completely lose the dial I ordered from eBay... I was actually relying on a welding rod when I checked for TDC. I'll make sure to get a new dial to be sure of TDC.

The inlet cam sprocket is a vernier, you slacken off the four bolts, turn the cam sprocket fully clockwise, then you fit the belt and set the tensioner to max tension (as you do this the sprocket will rotate independently of the camshaft), then you tighten the four bolts up, take the locking tools off, rotate the engine two revolutions & check the locking tools still fit and TDC is still right. Set the tensioner to the dot, job done.

Yes, I was aware of that and about the exhaust cam 'play' too. BUT the full clockwise cam sprocket lock I was not aware of and the way I did it was to put the sprocket in the MIDDLE of the play in the vernier.
I took important notes for myself on that paragraph.



Be careful as you can royally mess things up.

That is why I opened this thread as I feel something is wrong now with the timing belt, as I rotate it, the tensioner gets all over the place, and I feel that the valve springs get the cam to go back or forth a little and the belt on the exhaust~crankshaft side is slackened. Is that normal?
The second I start to turn it a little the tensioner sets on the mark and the belt is tensioned. should the tensioner be a bit above of the marking for the belt to have less play when it's a bit worn and loosened with time? or just set it dead on the mark and leave it as is?





I am not familiar with your engine but as far as I can tell you have fitted the belt and positioned the cams using some method (perhaps via the paint marks on the old belt) and then you find the timing tools show the timing is incorrect.


Can you clarify what you have done to give you the conclusion the timing tools give the wrong timing?

Oohh man, no I was not using any old marking but happens now is the new belt won't sit in it's own new marks. it always misses one tooth, and when I try to put it dead-on with the teeth between INLET and crank SUPER tight, the exhaust is very slack.
What I am concerned is the fact that the engine was (as gearbox markings which HGTBill told me now to ignore) the engine was driving great but found to be 10° on the gearbox window.



THANK YOU very much you've helped me a bunch already. Really having a tough time with this belt.

Edit:
Maybe I'll make a small but clear video of what is happening right now with the engine? would that be preferable?
 
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Thats bad luck, you need a tdc dial to set tdc properly.

Good, I'm assuming the 168 teeth belt is longer because the composite gasket is thicker than the thinner metal gaskets on the later engines, I think thats why there different lengths?

Its normal for the tensioner to flicker around when the engines running, so long as you set it to max tension when you initially fit the belt etc, rotate the engine & check the cam locking tools & tdc are still fine, you then just set it to the dot & thats it, the tensioners set.

If I read your original message correctly you've already got some cam locking tools for the 1.8/2.0 TS? If thats correct you could fit the cams from a 1.8/2.0 TS (there the same) and gain about 10bhp. The cams might be cheaper to buy than the 1.8 Punto/Barchetta locking tools. This is what i've done & it runs fine with the standard ecu.
 
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Thats bad luck, you need a tdc dial to set tdc properly.

Good, I'm assuming the 168 teeth belt is longer because the composite gasket is thicker than the thinner metal gaskets on the later engines, I think thats why there different lengths?

Its normal for the tensioner to flicker around when the engines running, so long as you set it to max tension when you initially fit the belt etc, rotate the engine & check the cam locking tools & tdc are still fine, you then just set it to the dot & that's it, the tensioners set.

If I read your original message correctly you've already got some cam locking tools for the 1.8/2.0 TS? If thats correct you could fit the cams from a 1.8/2.0 TS (there the same) and gain about 10bhp. The cams might be cheaper to buy than the 1.8 Punto/Barchetta locking tools. This is what i've done & it runs fine with the standard ecu.

Yesterday somehow somewhy somewho! found the damn gauge!! haha, that's so funny it was in front of me like all the time. So I am thrilled to check the TDC now with the gauge. and that's an interesting point you brought on about the head gaskets.
Yes, but I have 3 sets locking tools. 2 for Alfa's and one for the HGT engine.

The Alfa cams are way too expensive to bring here, checked not long ago and it was around 350 euro's which is pretty much a lot of money for that small percentage increase in power. So that's off-limit right now for me

Well, I'll try the TDC gauge today and hopefully will come to a positive conclusion.
And as things come, things go as well, f#$%in' broke the rear window yesterday as well by mistake. DAMN.

going for that wiper delete and will modify the wiper arm to hold a magnet so I could pass the 6-month regular TEST we have here to make it look like it's still there atleast.
 
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