1.8 mpg?

[rsmallwo]

FAO Tom......oh dear oh dear

well my car has always run at 3 notchs (2 in winter!!!)on the temp gauge for the 25000 miles i've had it and messages i've posted before on the forum have not told me that my thermostat is shot. My spanner man has never pointed out to me that my thermostat is shot and he's replaced my whole radiator in the past. Spanner man is a independant fiat specialist.

My tappets are now alittle louder than when i bought the car but it has done 84k miles now so i'd expect that from what you have said in the past tom but could this be as a result of the engine running too cold?

What other synptoms should i have of an engine running too cold?

Where should i place a themometer on the engine to indicate its true temp?

For the amount of heat that does come out of the interior heater it seems alot warmer than 50C to me and also when i put my hands on the engine (crankcase and radiator coolant pipes)it is very hot and not luke warm or bath temp like 50C is.....but touch warmth is very inaccurate i'd have to admit.

Don't really want to think what damage i may have done to my engine for 25K miles and i hope its a dodgy gauge myself.

Please advise....thanks

 

[Tom]

"What other synptoms should i have of an engine running too cold?"

Temp guage not going high enough and sitting even lower in the winter. Simple as that.

If the fan kicks in when the guage reaches just over half way then the guage works.

"Where should i place a themometer on the engine to indicate its true temp?"

Where the ECU and dash temp senders are. You should see 85-95degC water temp.

Heat a pan of water up to 50degC and put your hand in it.

Thermostats wear, the wax ages and goes bad with the constant hot-cold-hot-cold cycling. Its not due to it being stuck.

The best test is the pan test, take a new one and your old worn out one and put them in a big pan of water and put it on the stove. Then watch as they open, your worn out one will open sooner.

 

[Buzz]

justin, rsmallwo

glad to see tom just explained this. saves me typing almost the exact same thing. You DO both need new thermostats. my mechanic never noticed it, but then, he doesn't drive it either.

A bit of advice is handy though, so:

Buy a selection of jubilee clips. you cant re-use the OE ones. buy lots, because even though i bought the right amount, the smallest ones didn't go tight enough, and one of the biggest didn't open up enough to get it on over the pipe. so i had to walk to the garage for more. there were 6 needed in all. 3 were tiny, 1 medium, 2 large. I also took the bottom hose off and drained and replaced all the coolant. only costs about £6 for enough coolant, and asda sell de-ionised water for about 60p a litre. so its worth buying 3 bottles of that too, instead of using tap water.

all in all, its quite easy, but can be fiddly getting the old clips off. i spent just over 2.5 hours on mine, but that included a walk to the garage and back, which was nearly an hour of it. the other hour was spent getting the facking old clips off.

everything you need to know is in the haynes manual. i got my thermostat from buypartsby at a good price.

Buzz
The champion of the Bravo 1.4
Owner of the Bravo 1.8

Member Page

 

[justin]

Cheers buzz, job for the weekend me thinks

 

[Anonymous]

then you can do mine justin ..lol
same as the rear brake pipes

ade

 

[Anonymous]

@Buzz

where abouts on Buypartsby did you find thermostats? Ive searched and cannot find any!

Cheers.

 

[justin]

@ ade, no probs mate me and paul are gonna start charging garage prives tho bud
yeeeehaaarrr

 

[rsmallwo]

errrrrrr......mmmmmm

well, after posting i popped to the garage to have my temp checked.

at "2 notches" the temp was 71.3C and at 3 notches it was 73.4C. The mechanic said this was normal for this engine at this time of year (still think 85-90 would be better myself)

He said on the 1.8 and 2.0 bravos this is a common problem he deals with, he says its the temp gauge thats the issue and not the thermostat, If the thermostat was the issue it would take 25 miles of use from starting the car before the needle would budge and when your moving along the needle would drop down to the bottom of the gauge and not down to 2 notches in my case or halfway like its supposed to be.

Also when i first start my car the needle doesn't start from the "C" notch but from a couple of mm's behind it, after a few mins the engine gets upto 2 notches and then hovers around 2 to 3 dependant on what traffic conditions there are.

when i said before on what symptoms are there of having an engine running cold i meant what affects does it have on the engine, i'd assume increase engine wear.

Thanks for your replys

 

[Tom]

Well he is talking ****e (as do 99% of mechanics or specialists)

As I said, the bottom mark is not zero, its about 50-60degC. If the fan kicks in at halfway then the guage is working perfectly.

The stat should open at 86-88degC if memory serves me correctly. 73 is TOOO low.

Also as I said earlier it is not stuck, it is just worn out. An engine with a stuck thermostat takes forever to warm up or overheats badly.

 

[RR]

MPG is a funny thing.

A mate of mine has a Megane 2.0 Coupe that does 26mpg. His borother has the 1.6 Megane Coupe that does exactly the same.

My old Alfa 145 1.8 did approx 26mpg, whereas my HGT 155 did 28.

Our 145 Cloverleaf does 22mpg, (yes 22mpg!) whereas my Focus ST170 does 27mpg.

Strange, but true.

 

[rsmallwo]

damage

ok

what damage will occur to the engine running at 70C in the medium term

its just the car is only worth 1.5k tops. I have had this "problem" for 25k miles and what ever damage is going to be done probably will have been done. So..... I want to assess on wether its worth the investment of replacing the thermostat or not. Bearing in mind this "mechanic" said it was fine but he is in a job whereby if he creates work he gets paid more, the mechanic in question is also the business owner so you would expect him to say it needs replacing rather than saying its ok as it is.

thanks again

 

[Tom]

It will use more fuel and the oil will wear out quicker. Low engine temp means low oil temp and cold oil fouls up.

Its a quick and cheap job to change the stat.

£25+vat for the stat, a few hose clamps and a bottle of antifreeze. You'll save that back in fuel within a year easily.

A lot of mechanics will try and fob you off with 'common problems', its why I don't use them The 'problem' with your car is its old and parts are wearing out.