Technical 1.3 deisel - it went BANG!!!

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Technical 1.3 deisel - it went BANG!!!

If I had a choice, I'd pick a Fiat DPF version over a FAP DPF, hands down.

Yes, though I'd say it's a choice between two evils, avoidable by specifying a petrol engine.

It's a great pity FIAT didn't choose to flash a dashboard warning in the MFD along the lines of "Regenerating - do not switch off engine". Might have saved quite a few forced regens & DPF replacements :mad:.
 
Yes, though I'd say it's a choice between two evils, avoidable by specifying a petrol engine.

It's a great pity FIAT didn't choose to flash a dashboard warning in the MFD along the lines of "Regenerating - do not switch off engine". Might have saved quite a few forced regens & DPF replacements :mad:.

Indeed, which was my point (if I had to buy a diseasel with a DPF, I'd choose Fiat's solution). Personally I've weighed up my annual mileage against the fuel costs, along with the other pro's and con's of each, and petrol wins for me. :)

After much badgering by Tech's, Fiat did bring out a FAQ sheet to be given/shown to customers regarding DPF's and operating guidlines to minimise issues. We recommended a designated lamp/warning message, but the current system (which I mentioned above) is what we were given. I don't know if it has changed/improved in the last year or so.
 
Yes, though I'd say it's a choice between two evils, avoidable by specifying a petrol engine.

It's a great pity FIAT didn't choose to flash a dashboard warning in the MFD along the lines of "Regenerating - do not switch off engine". Might have saved quite a few forced regens & DPF replacements :mad:.

Thing is though why should your car determine when how and when you use it? If it flashes up that message when your arriving at work 3 minutes to your shift are you going to think thanks fiat for safe guarding my car or ffs why is this damn thing trying to make me late? Especially when no other maker does this (as far know).

Diesel citycars have never made much sense to me Tbf but that's probably a rant for another day. Lets just say a local taxi company switched to petrol cars as being cheaper to run overall once all life costs were taken into account, if a taxi company can't make a diesel pay you aint got a chance doing citybound trips.
 
Thanks for all the kind replies!

Steven - my nosey gene has just kicked in. What issues have you had with your Japanese cars?
 
Thanks for all the kind replies!

Steven - my nosey gene has just kicked in. What issues have you had with your Japanese cars?

Keeping it brief as its wandering off topic, 3 sets of wishbones in 5 years, a wheel bearing, 5 recalls, 5th gear replaced, driveshaft oil seals and gearbox oil seals replaced, rear seat catches failed and replaced.

Although last bit of work it needed was 3 years ago its behaved since and possibly spent 500 quid on it for maintenance in last 30k
 
Q. If I do know a regen has started, what should I do?

A. Carry on driving until it has completed.



Q. And if a regen has started, without me knowing, and I turn the engine off, what will happen?

A. The next time you drive the car and the conditions for regen have been met eg. temperature then the regen will continue. I believe that you can do this up to 3 times but if it fails to complete by then you will get a warning message/light in the speedo and you will need to take it to a dealer for them to carry out a forced regeneration. If that doesn't work then a new DPF will be required.

I disagree with point one. If its started and you've arrived at destination, stop the engine and let it do it another time. Turning it off mid cycle just makes a pharting noise, nothing more.

Only time you need to leave it to compete a regen is if the light is on. As mentioned, it can fail upto 3-4 before this will happen. Reason being is that a regen normally occours at 35-40% Capacity, to allow for the possible failed regen.

I've had my Bravo with DPF for 2 months now, must have turned the engine off mid cycle at least half a dozen times, without ill effect.

My understanding is that if DPF light comes on, let it (the engine, regen) run until it extinguishes, if the DPF and MIL come on, then go the the deal, via the bank for a loan.
 
car should not fail like this

have you spoken with dealer or Fiat Customer services?

when did you buy/where from
service up to date?

you shouldn't be paying out for this to be fixed, engine should not run away

if FIAT will not help try trading standards, car is argualbly not of merchantable quality/fit for purpose
 
Why is it not fit for purpose? Its not the first car for this to happen to and it wont be the last. Its out of warranty and i cant imagine fiat standing by any goodwill, especially if its not the original owner.I used to work for VW on the commercials. They were very early in the development of the dpf filter (It is a filter and as such not usually regarded as a warranty item). Well these early vans were classed as very clean due to the filter and a lot of people used them in that there London. All stop start use. The amount of dpf's going down within a matter of months was unbelievable. It did get to the stage of a 'not fit for purpose' situation.Mercedes have the dpf and i havent seen too many issues at this end but i do know the sprinters ecu was updated about 12mths ago to reprogramme the start up procedure (They rev quite high on turnover for some reason to protect the filter).Other than what has been stated by what is obviously someone employed by fiat/garage on here i would just suggest that before the expiry of any warranty that this filter be given a thorough once over. I think our garage can check how the filter is performing on our vans so i expect it can be done on the fiat. Ours are £1000 to replace if they fail.
 
I was going to make the same comment to be honest, I wouldn't pay for it as it shouldn't happen.

I know Jaguar sent out a technical note telling dealers not to fill the oil to max in on the dip stick and only fill to midway between low and max.

Trouble is owners didn't know as the manual tells you to keep it at max. That's why they pay out for it if it happens.
 
I appreciate that not everything is as black and white as the 3yrs but then why should they deem it warrantable in this case?What defect has been found?This sounds to me like a build up over time of the fuel used in the dpf procedure. Could fiat argue that this would have been checked if the car was put on a computer and it reported a host of uncomplete procedure being carried out? Maybe the oil hadnt been changed at the correct regular interval. I dont know but we need more info to see what the case may be.When was the oil last changed? Surely this would be the first check
 
If the engine experienced the "run-away" scenario, then it was most likely down to the oil level being too high (where was it on the dipstick the last time you checked it?) or a turbo seal failure (as has been said).

Either it was too high to begin with, and the two or more regens diluted the oil with enough fuel to tip it over the edge, or the garage may have been sneaky and reset the oil degradation counter without actually changing the oil, causing it to thin-out too much and cause premature engine/turbo wear before eventually failing. A check of the parameters may help to determine this.

TBH, Fiat's DPF system is very good compared to others, but can be let down by the occasional sensor fault or the lack of info given to owners by the Salesmen (for fear of scaring them away). I've disclosed Technical info in the past to help Forum members and dispel a few myths- one being that it needs to be thrashed on the motorway once a week/month (it'll happily do a regen at idle- as long as you recognise it's doing it and don't switch-off before it's done ;) ), for example.

I had one which kept regenerating on a far-too-regular basis before. A few minutes reading the ECU parameters identified the Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor was reading no higher than 40 degreesC, even during a regen where it should be practically glowing! This meant the ECU believed the filter wasn't getting hot enough to clear, so it repeated the procedure over and over, not recognising the sensor readings being incorrect. By the time it came to us, the damage had been done- it had spun a shell on number 1 con-rod due to the thinned oil. Replacement engine fitted, and a new sensor fitted and working correctly- and all was perfect and we never saw the car again for apart from usual servicing.

What I'm getting at is that you need to find out the cause of the failure before you fit the new engine in case the DPF regen issue was a symptom, not a cause.

(y)

This is kinda what i was getting at. The fact that the car had this incident may just be down to the oil being overfilled by the owner. It may be that they ignored the repeated regens and should have had the forced regen carried out or that the dealer or whoever serviced it hadnt reset the oil sensor.I dont know but there are a lot of variables before i would say its simple warranty issue
 
I appreciate that not everything is as black and white as the 3yrs but then why should they deem it warrantable in this case?What defect has been found?This sounds to me like a build up over time of the fuel used in the dpf procedure. Could fiat argue that this would have been checked if the car was put on a computer and it reported a host of uncomplete procedure being carried out? Maybe the oil hadnt been changed at the correct regular interval. I dont know but we need more info to see what the case may be.When was the oil last changed? Surely this would be the first check

That's exactly my view too. Let's not say that this is or isn't something which should perhaps be warrantable until we know the facts.
 
^hmm agreed.
it is shocking that a modern day diesel would run away like that. mind you, youve got no idea on the condition of the engine before it happed.

i have had diesels run away with me before but only under testing conditions. not cars.. well not engines that were in cars at the time.

i'd still have a diesel though.
 
I was going to make the same comment to be honest, I wouldn't pay for it as it shouldn't happen.

I know Jaguar sent out a technical note telling dealers not to fill the oil to max in on the dip stick and only fill to midway between low and max.

Trouble is owners didn't know as the manual tells you to keep it at max. That's why they pay out for it if it happens.

indeed

the engine should have protection systems in place to prevent runaway (for example solenoid valve to close off air supply)

degradation and lack of maintenance are foreseeable and should not result in this extreme failure
 
Just read this elsewhere on the forumDPFs and oil changes and servicing for the DieselThe main issue with the DPF system used by Fiat and many other manufacturers, is that the filter is purged by injecting extra fuel into the combustion chamber which increases the temperature of the gases flowing through the exhaust and burns the particulates out. By injecting the extra fuel into the cylinder, a small amount will bypass the rings and make it's way into the sump and dilute the oil. Once the ECU calculates the number and duration of regens is at risk of degrading the oil too much, it illuminates the oil change lamp/message.The above can also have the symptom of actually raising the oil level on the dip stick.If your car has a DPF, the oil change is never "part of the service"- it's a seperate area which should be monitored by the Tech during the normal service, and only changed after a conversation with yourself about the level of degradation, miles left 'til the next change, and whether you want it done there and then or return at a later date when the ECU decides it will be required. Thanks go to D4nny8oy for the body of this post from this thread.https://www.fiatforum.com/500/240374-...oil-light.html Now that suggests to me that regardless of oil change cycles the vehicle is designed to look after the oil/fuel mix situation and sound an alarm when it gets to the stage where it is a risk (Surely a long time before it is a risk). So my questions are why didnt this sensor go off and tell her to get to the dealer quick smart? Maybe it did and she ignored it? Maybe its the same light that comes on for a regen and she mistook it for a normal procedure when in fact the engine was shouting STOPPPPPPPP.Or it could have been a faulty sensor which is just plain unlucky.Can you shed some light on this?
 
Just read this elsewhere on the forumDPFs and oil changes and servicing for the DieselThe main issue with the DPF system used by Fiat and many other manufacturers, is that the filter is purged by injecting extra fuel into the combustion chamber which increases the temperature of the gases flowing through the exhaust and burns the particulates out. By injecting the extra fuel into the cylinder, a small amount will bypass the rings and make it's way into the sump and dilute the oil. Once the ECU calculates the number and duration of regens is at risk of degrading the oil too much, it illuminates the oil change lamp/message.The above can also have the symptom of actually raising the oil level on the dip stick.If your car has a DPF, the oil change is never "part of the service"- it's a seperate area which should be monitored by the Tech during the normal service, and only changed after a conversation with yourself about the level of degradation, miles left 'til the next change, and whether you want it done there and then or return at a later date when the ECU decides it will be required. Thanks go to D4nny8oy for the body of this post from this thread.https://www.fiatforum.com/500/240374-...oil-light.html Now that suggests to me that regardless of oil change cycles the vehicle is designed to look after the oil/fuel mix situation and sound an alarm when it gets to the stage where it is a risk (Surely a long time before it is a risk). So my questions are why didnt this sensor go off and tell her to get to the dealer quick smart? Maybe it did and she ignored it? Maybe its the same light that comes on for a regen and she mistook it for a normal procedure when in fact the engine was shouting STOPPPPPPPP.Or it could have been a faulty sensor which is just plain unlucky.Can you shed some light on this?

As has been explained. There is no physical oil level sensor as such. The recommendation is to fill the car till it's a couple of mm below max on the oil for the technicians, that way when the diesel gets into the oil the level shouldn't go above max and cause issues. Once the ecu calculates that the oil is degraded enough to need changing it will tell the driver via a message on the display.

There are a number of reasons why the issue the OP has could happen and I stress that I'm not accusing anyone or insinuating that this is what happened..... just throwing some ideas out there which could apply to this fault should it occur to anyone

The oil could have been overfilled by the technician doing the oil change or by the owner when topping up.
The driver could have ignored the warning and kept on going
There are probably a couple of other situations but my brain hasn't woken up yet.
 
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