Tuning 1.3 75 and 90hp difference

[adamcot]

I never had that, and its been into the dealers loads of times. Even if they did wipe it somehow, most decent remap companies will put the map back on for you for free anyway.

 

[Percyhahn]

ok, and red dot, which seems to be the best and most popular, how much do they charge for a remap?

 

[TMC Motorsport]

He never said it didnt? He just pointed out that technically your product invalidates it aswell but the difference if you can remove yours and then take it in as standard if anything breaks which is fraud effectively isnt it if the extra power has caused what ever component to break and you are taking it to a dealer claiming that its fine.



Same as above, its fraud if your car breaks because of the box and you then remove it and try to get the problem fixed under warrenty as if the car is standard.

Your comments are completely hypothetical. I have never had a complaint of a damaged vehicle with our box fitted, I'm not even sure I have heard of anyone who has with any quality make of box fitted.

All quality tuning kits runs within the set tolerances of the engine as designed by the manufacturer so firstly I don't believe it could or would ever cause damage and have never heard of such a problem, it could also be argued that since it runs within the set manufacturers tolerances if a component did fail then that component was not capable of performing to the tolerance limits set by the manufacturer therefore was flawed.

Remap on the other hand can remove or increase the electronic limiters set by the manufacturer to allow the engine to be pushed beyond the manufacturers set limits, therefore if damage was caused you would have no case.

So I would be more happy to argue a case were a box was fitted running within the manufacturers limits than a remap were it wasn't. Toyota,Mitsubishi and Mercedes to name a few actually sell their own tuning boxes under TTE, Brabus etc and openly stand over warranty with the units fitted.

If a box tries to increase power beyond a certain limit the car will go to limp mode, this is the limit the manufacturer has deemed safe for the engine to run to, a box can't remove that so has to run less than the limit, with a remap you can simply increase the limit or remove it. Of course there are crappy resistor boxes from auction sites which just over fuel an engine even at idle and could cause damage but any quality digital system will not do this as it runs a specific map.

Its also fraud to modify your car in any way and not inform your insurance company, but does everyone do that? I'll leave that to your imagination

 

[TMC Motorsport]

I never had that, and its been into the dealers loads of times. Even if they did wipe it somehow, most decent remap companies will put the map back on for you for free anyway.

Thats fine unless you live 200 miles away from the remap place. One of my customers who I remapped a 525d BMW for was pretty pissed at having to drive 45 miles a month after it was done because it had been in for an airbag fault and BMW re-flashed it.
I re-flashed it for free and heard nothing since but if he leaves it in for a service I'm sure he'll be on the phone again after he picks it up.

The point I've been trying to make all along guys and I know some of you are very happy with your remaps and with Red Dot, but that doesn't suit everyone, most of the boxes I've sold through this forum have been to customers who won't remap their car no matter how good it is or who live hundreds of miles from Red Dot or even in many cases in another country some of which remaps are not available. I'm not trying to take business off Red Dot so you don't need to jump on me every time someone asks about a tuning box, fact is remapping may not be an option for that person and travelling to London may not be an option either.

 

[Percyhahn]

well in that case, im going to stick to the original plan, and stay safe with the box. why don't fiat do some kind of box then? they would make good money from it.
goign back to the fraud game, its fraud the amount people pay for cars, and are scammed out of warranty when something breaks as much as possible. so if people were to claim warranty fraudulantly, then fiat wont lose anything, and its no more morally wrong than when fiat tell you you warranty doesn't cover x part thats broke.

 

[TMC Motorsport]

well in that case, im going to stick to the original plan, and stay safe with the box. why don't fiat do some kind of box then? they would make good money from it.
goign back to the fraud game, its fraud the amount people pay for cars, and are scammed out of warranty when something breaks as much as possible. so if people were to claim warranty fraudulantly, then fiat wont lose anything, and its no more morally wrong than when fiat tell you you warranty doesn't cover x part thats broke.

Don't know why Fiat don't sell boxes, alot of other manufacturers saw it as a lucrative market and decided to take advantage of it rather than lose the extra profit to others. We supply alot of franchise dealers with kits, they make good profit, sometimes more than on some crazy car deals they offer now, accessories is where they make their money now, and fact is customers will pay more to buy a tuning box off the main dealer in the knowledge that they can leave their car in for servicing or warranty work and leave the box on and not have to worry. Its peace of mind.

If the dealers have no reliability issues with our boxes and are making good money from them they are happy to sell them. Would be a different story if they had cars breaking down every week but that just doesn't happen. Our business is 95% to the motor trade and tuning shops. Retail business through forums etc is only a small portion of our sales, but appreciated at the same time

 

[punto_matt]

Im not talking down your product or anyone elses. I was simply saying that there is as much chance with either that they could lead to engine damage through running more power which is true.

the manufacturers you listed sell complete tuning packages not boxes.

 

[TMC Motorsport]

Im not talking down your product or anyone elses. I was simply saying that there is as much chance with either that they could lead to engine damage through running more power which is true.

the manufacturers you listed sell complete tuning packages not boxes.

Matt if you read my post through you would see that I said tuning boxes run generally less power than a remap hence there is LESS possiblility they could lead to engine damage. Tuning box also runs WITHIN the manufacturers set limits for the engine so again its highly unlikely that one would damage an engine.

Also the manufacturers I listed do sell tuning boxes alone, call any Toyota dealership and ask for a price for a TTE tuning box for Hilux or Landcruiser, they do sell them alone and they cost around £800!

 

[MrSaffron]

I am fairly satisfied with what TMC is saying. If components are run within their respective manufacturers limits then any premature failure is not the fault of the box or remap. I don't have an opinion on whether a remap or box performs best but certainly a box is more convenient especially if you can switch them in and out like you can with the TMC ones.

More generally though, of course you reduce the longevity of an engine if you tune for more power because you are putting more load on engine components. But if this means it gets tired after 200,000 kms rather than 250,000 then do you care?

My understanding is this. Boxes or remaps basically just see to more mixture getting stuffed into the cylinders with a mix of increased common rail pressure, injector duration and turbo boost. This potentially works the high pressure pump and turbo harder and increases the stress on the rail itself etc. but these are the components you hope are always only worked within manufacturers specs. So the extra mixture makes more torque and power but also more heat. Apparently 40% of the energy in your diesel is converted to heat. Engines overheating is bad and results in excessive wear but provided you can get rid of the heat then there should not be a problem. If the heat becomes a problem you then need to look at things like bigger intercoolers or better flowing exhausts etc..

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm getting a TMC box and will report back. I'll watch the temp gauge closely for the first few weeks and in hot weather but am not expecting any issues.

 

[punto_matt]

I did read your post thanks