Garage snapped glow plug advice

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Garage snapped glow plug advice

CHM

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Hi everyone,
Would really appreciate your advice.
I have a diesel 1.3 Grande Punto dynamic (75hp).
I recently brought my car in to an independent garage to check a problem: it was slow to start, and there was white smoke on cold start. I suspected it could be glow plugs, and the garage said there may be other things causing it, and they will check and let me know.
Next day garage calls to confirm it was glowplugs and tell me they have ordered new and started replacing (surprised they did not contact me to confirm this move). 2 came off easily, 1 snapped off at the head, 1 holds hard and they are afraid to break it. They told me they would try drilling but if that goes bad the engine head would need to come off and the repair would be expensive. I told them I cannot afford a really expensive repair. They checked everything over and called back to say they put 2 new plugs in, the stuck one was operational, and the broken one (which was dead in the first place) could be left broken as it is: it holds firm.
Now advice I am asking is:
1. Is it ok to leave things as they are now? Any dangers in driving around with a glowplug snapped at the head? (could fall off in motion and cause damage? long-term effects of leaving it?)
2. Would the garage be justified in putting expensive labour bill for several hours (they broke it, while the job should take 30 min?) What would be a fair bill in this case?
3. Anything else you would advise/warn in this case?

This is my first car, and I am not very familiar with technical issues, so help would be greatly welcome!
 
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Hiya CHM ?

Prior to all this happening, when was the last time the glow plugs were taken out, do you know? Or have you only recently acquired the car?

I only ask because from my own experience just the other day working on my old Punto one of the spark plugs top sections just broke off at the point where the coil pack fits on to it?, but I know that's partly due to the vehicle being off the road for nearly two years and it's probably slightly seized due to lack of pre copper-slip on the threads plus heat from the engine have seated it some what, should still be able to get it out but it's going to be fiddly!

Glow plugs are a bit of a different story I know. My friends an Engineer and he's had to drill out a glow plug before and putting it the nicest way possible he told me it wasn't a great job to do, he did eventually get it out though.
 
its there problem, they shouid fix it,

(they would be liable under section 13 of the supply of goods and services act 1982, )


If the garage won't do the repairs/rectify there damage, get in touch either with the garage’s insurance company or trade association, and negotiate with them.

if they wont provide these details, contact trading standard's.
 
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Hi Dark Crusader, I aquired it a year ago, it's almost 6 years old now with 63k on the clock. I don't know if the plugs have been changed before I bought it.
 
Hmmm...bit of a toughie then!:confused: what oldhammer saids about right with regards to whom fault lies. Try negotiating with them first, if no joy then hit them with the legal stuff. A Hi-q centre fitted some tyres on my first Punto years ago, they let loose a trainee on it and he replaced the wheels on using an air ratchet straight away without lining them up as you normally would and managed to cross- thread one of the bolts which snapped of while I was doing some routine maintenance on my car. I complained to them and demanded they rectify it and they eventually did, with zero cost to me. So I hope you manage to get a decent solution out of this mess?
 
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It should be OK and whilst I have every sympathy for the garage having been in this situation a million times they have shot themselves in the foot by starting the job without asking you first. If they had called you and said there was a danger, as there always is, of a glowplug snapping and asked if you want them to carry on at your own risk then they would be Ok but as it stands they should sort it out. Keep it calm and don't go threatening legal action at the first opportunity and see what they say. If I had a quid for every glowplug I have snapped I'd have a new 500 on the drive!
 
This unfortunate situation is not a clear as you'd hope.

The glowplugs being seized are not the garage's fault and if they break that risk is the owner's. However, being the "experts", they should have diagnosed it, then advised of the risks first. So they have some responsibility. What maggers says is the best answer so far.

It should be OK and whilst I have every sympathy for the garage having been in this situation a million times they have shot themselves in the foot by starting the job without asking you first. If they had called you and said there was a danger, as there always is, of a glowplug snapping and asked if you want them to carry on at your own risk then they would be Ok but as it stands they should sort it out. Keep it calm and don't go threatening legal action at the first opportunity and see what they say. If I had a quid for every glowplug I have snapped I'd have a new 500 on the drive!

Be polite, but firm, as they started the work before getting your authorisation, and be prepared to negotiate terms. Hopefully you'll get away with just the expected cost of new glowplugs, as they should absorb any extra labour.

Running on just 3 glowplugs may upset the engine management sometime, and throw up a fault. Glowplugs used to be wired in series (back in the dark ages), so if one failed, they all stopped operating, but if these are in parallel, which I believe is the current method, then the other three will work. It may take a few seconds for the last cylinder to join the team each morning. Effects will be: still some white smoke, slightly more fuel used, and a risk of extra wear to that cylinder due to being washed with diesel fuel, so long-term it needs fixing. Keep an eye on the oil level, in case the excess fuel drains to the sump. Take up dipstick sniffing. It is not arrestable.
 
I've just been to the garage. The bill is for 180 quid, including 2 new overpriced glowplugs that they put in, an hour of diagnostics, and 1.5 hours labour for atempted change of glowplugs. They deny any responsibility for the snapped glowplug though admitted they should have called before starting repair, but said 'what else would you have done other than change the set' and said that any garage would have snapped it as it 'was seized'. Suggested I take the car with 3 glowplugs working or go in for expensive repair for 'hundreds of pounds' taking the engine head off. Argued with them for a good time, only managed to reduce the bill to 150. To be honest, would not want to leave the car with them after this, so paid and wrote 'Paying under protest' on the bill to keep options open. Maybe I did a silly thing, but this is my first car and I never had a dispute with a garage in this country, so was not sure what else to do. Any further advice?
 
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I would have a word with Citizens advice or trading standards due to the fact that they have admitted they should have asked you first. Do that first before having any more work done. Next step is to find a better garage, obviously. Try to find a local place that specialises in engine reconditioning, there are a number of tools available that can be used to extract broken glowplugs without removing the head but are too costly for a regular garage to buy. It may be useful to get a quote from one and ask the other garage to contribute.
 
Thanks - I will definitely be talking to Trading Standards tomorrow. I just started the car: the initial problem's back, the glow plug warning light back flashing (which they assured is now gone), and the problem is in more mess than when we started.
Here's what I have so far:
1. Bill paid, with 'paying under protest' written on their copy on the invoice.
2. They carried out unauthorised repair and it went wrong
3. The job was not done with reasonable care.
3. Problem not fixed: what was I charged for?

Any legal advice in taking this further to claim back the money paid and get them to cover repair (preferably at another garage as I would not risk leaving the car with them)?
Does anyone have experience of claiming against the garage?
 
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Any further advice?

You have two separate issues to deal with; getting redress from the garage that caused the problem, and getting the car fixed.

Let's deal with these separately.

Experience has shown that the repair carried out was not of merchantable quality and you certainly have a strong legal case for at least getting your money back. I would also argue that a competent mechanic would not apply sufficient force to break a glow plug and would stop what they were doing before reaching that point, so you might be able to get an additional amount to compensate you for the cost of removing the now damaged plug.

The question is whether you have the stomach to see it through the County Court process - if you follow it through to the bitter end, I strongly suspect you'll win, but I doubt the garage will hand over any money without a fight.

You need to start by writing a letter formally rejecting the repair, demanding a refund and compensation to cover the cost of rectifying the damage they have caused. If they refuse, then you have to send them a letter before action stating that you will commence legal proceedings if they don't settle within 7 days. If they ignore that, then you will have to follow the small claims procedure to get your money back - you can start this online.

As for getting the car fixed, the advice to go to a specialist engine reconditioner is sound as they should have the necessary tools to remove the two remaining plugs without taking the head off.
 
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Yeah, that's the sort of tool I was on about. The trouble with most glowplugs is that you don't get any warning, they just snap like carrots. As for finding another garage, the best bet is to ask friends & family who they use. I know it's tricky with it being your 1st car and that. As an example, the garage I work for never advertise and rely on recommendations and repeat custom for work and we are always rammed out - nuff said?
 
just like to say this is rubbish
garage should have got permission though to have a go

I can see your point - sometimes the torque needed to remove them is such that you never know which it's to be until it's out or snapped off.

I've broken a couple on my own cars; fortunately I managed to get the remains out without dropping anything in the engine.

But that was my risk - if I were working on someone else's car and it reached the point where there was a chance of snapping a plug, I'd leave it be & return it unfixed.

Also there are plenty of things you could try soaking it in overnight before resorting to absolute brute force. But in the final analysis, sometimes whether they come out or snap is largely down to luck. In those cases, however much you try to warn the customer, the garage is a hero if it works, and all things evil if it doesn't.

Personally I'd rather someone else took the risk, which is why I'd wimp out & return the car. I also wouldn't charge for trying.
 
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