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Old 20-06-2012   #16
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Re: hybrid turbo

I Wouldn't recommend a vnt on a petrol turbo anyway, I'm not sure they can take the heat(expensive Porsche vnt turbo aside)
Also I wouldnt boost a petrol to 1.8 bar not for long anyway.
This hybrid is fitted to my diesel jtd 16v .The donor turbo was off a Alfa gt coupe ducati(170hp std) but as I said is same size as the latest version of replacement turbo and the jtdm 16v turbo( some early jtd 16v turbos had a smaller vnt vane height of approx 5.5mm compared to the later 6.3mm vane height)
A few Alfa guys were supprised at the std turbo's small compressor inducer of 34.6mm, I think the 8v inducer is 35.xxmm and they assumed the 16v had an inducer of 36mm+
If I were to do it again I would go gtb2056(probably)
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Old 21-06-2012   #17
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Re: hybrid turbo

was going to say vnt petrol not good ahha..

Have you upped the boost via mapping since making the upgrade?
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Old 21-06-2012   #18
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Re: hybrid turbo

yes, now upped requested pressure in mapping, last logs were max requested 2800mbar and i think it was overboosting maybe 50mbar and hit 19.99%vnt again so redid map again just raising to 2850mbar max and calculated some afr values from fuelling that required a bit more boost here and there.
no logs recently as still been playing with maps for low rpm mpg.
here were some figures i calculated from one of my later logs to give required airflow/boost to give an afr of 17:1 should be smoke free
revs IQmm3 maf maf temp map temp boost vnt afr maf @ afr17
2360 82.428 1249 23.16 28.36 2484 47.65 18.038 1177
2617 85.725 1248.5 22.66 27.76 2557 42.2 17.33 1224
2887 95.391 1279 21.66 27.56 2557 38.34 15.96 1362
3150 95.412 1316 21.16 27.66 2610 34.89 16.42 1362
3407 95.433 1311.5 21.16 27.96 2658 35.67 16.36 1362
3660 95.523 1338.5 20.66 28.56 2737 35.05 16.68 1364
3901 95.553 1334 19.26 29.66 2760 32.87 16.62 1364
4103 95.523 1295 18.26 30.36 2742 32.05 16.13 1364
4301 95.574 1241.5 17.76 31.36 2713 19.99 15.46 1364
you can see afr started at 18 and went down to 15.46 on these values so more boost was required(for my liking, or less fuel of course if i cant make enough boost).
if i use mm3x0.84 = mg/i and then if i divide maf value in mg/i by IQ in mg/i =afr
if so i can use afr=17 and calculate desired maf value by iq mg/ix17=maf
not sure i got as far as calculating boost from desired maf values, i will just keep upping and logging and seeing what calc afr is.
max power should be around 14.7 afr but i would expect that to be a bit smoky, plus a bit more boost can help keep egt down.most turbo diesel forums dont like to go much below 16:1 for acceptable smoke.
2850mb=26.3psi at sea level, im at altitude meaning sometimes 970mb atmos so i think im running realistic 1880mbar boost =27.3psi at peak maybe more on a low pressure day.
i think std max boost for the jtd 16v was 2350mb or 19.58psi im not sure about the 8v or the 120mj?
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Last edited by sussexa; 21-06-2012 at 21:34.
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Old 25-06-2012   #19
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Re: hybrid turbo

oh nice to see im not the only JTD nerd :-)
do join the http://www.facebook.com/MultijetTuning

so the problem is that you cant keep the pressure down? larger exhaust/vgt housing.. since that is what is controlling the boost .. or simply a wastegate maby.?
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Old 25-06-2012   #20
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Re: hybrid turbo

fraguzz,

I like your Panda, What bhp is it now???
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Old 25-06-2012   #21
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Re: hybrid turbo

So to speak yes I'm struggling to keep boost down, only because I'm injecting too much fuel for the turbine size I have, to keep control above 20%, so even at 2800mb I can get boost creep, I can request higher boost pressure or lower requested fuel at the revs the creep occurs.
I am already at a higher power level than what I had planned when I started the hybrid turbo.
If it still creeps at 2850mbar I will reduce fuelling to regain some vnt As 27psi is a self imposed limit I don't Really want to cross for reliability(this is my daily driver after all )
I have seen you in a few threads on alfaforum did you ever get your injectors sorted?
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Old 26-06-2012   #22
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Re: hybrid turbo

hi

Thanks .. Hp i dont know.. my goal is 100% Up!

well sort of... have been running for weeks now. im yet to have it remaped. it pulls! compare to my 110hp marea jtd.. its like trying a 60hp punto to a GT.. the pull is harder in this than the standard GT.. maby not the 0-100times.

i was testing my newly fitted "fuel cut defender" --voltage clamp. on my MAP sensor and now i can run past the magic 1.5bars of boost now running around 1,6-1,7.. but tryed to ajust my HDI electric boost controler abit higher but boost just went crasy Up.. 1.9bars.. so i think i have hit boost limmit on this new VGT turbo..
i dont know if you can see this from facebook ..
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150967597163936
4gear no MAF connected 1,5bars..
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Old 07-09-2012   #23
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Re: hybrid turbo

just had my last r/r for a while now.
run1 w/m on , run 2 w/m off
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4...results001.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5...results002.jpg
finishes off my hybrid turbo thread, call it 190whp ,just shy of 400nm probably more with better / pro mapping plus not sure what maxed out std turbo would have done.
large gains with water methanol probably showing i had enough air for a bit more fuel.
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Old 11-12-2012   #24
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Re: hybrid turbo

Just trying to do some charts for desired mm3 fuel for engine torque for upto 600nm
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...d-gtb2056-.xls
This may be for a gtb2056 turbo(extrapolated from real dyno figure)
This one below extrapolated from original engine map and extended
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...terpolated.xls
May be helpful to anyone shooting for mega power.
This is internal engine torque, friction loss must be subtracted
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...onlossmap.png/
Plus subtract a bit more for gearbox and other losses to get road nm(guess5-10nm maybe)
Heres original map std
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/nmtoiqmap.png/
less use at top end of map 400-500nm
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Old 09-02-2018   #25
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Re: hybrid turbo

Hi, did fraguzz ever achieve the 140 bhp mark ??? With a 1.3 multijet
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