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Old 08-10-2011   #1
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*HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Here goes my first thread, so bear with me if i start asking silly questions.

I have a 1997 1.1 Sx on 57,000 miles, it was giving to me by a friend as it was no longer need by them.

It was coughing a spluttering/loosing power last week and then died.
I suspected coil failure and this was confirmed as plug No3 wasn't sparking.
So needless to say i replaced the plugs both coil packs and HT leads a few days ago as i was unsure when they were done last.
Now all the plugs are sparking as they should

But i still have a problem, the car will not start now and when it does it will not go above 2000rpm and this is after 4/5 long attempts to start it with jump leads attached as it drains the battery.
When its started and running it stinks of fuel and when my foot is let off the throttle pedal the car won't idle, it'll just cut out.
After it cuts out it takes 4/5 attempts to start again

Does anyone know what my problem could be as the leads and plugs were replaced like for like and replaced in the same order 4-1-3-2

Is this the correct firing order ??

The car has had a new cambelt and was running fine for month and then started playing up it has had a new battery and starter less than 6 months ago as well.

Anyones help would be appreciated.


Richard
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Old 08-10-2011   #2
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

check timing belt hasn't slipped a tooth = not able to fire easily

Also on the side of the Coil pack - you should see a number Cast into it
Something like
14-32

meaning 1 and 4 fire together
2 and 3 fire together

Ziggy
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Old 08-10-2011   #3
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Check the timing, then check the water temp sensor (blue coded sensor on the inlet manifold) and wiring to it.
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Old 10-10-2011   #4
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy122 View Post
check timing belt hasn't slipped a tooth = not able to fire easily

Also on the side of the Coil pack - you should see a number Cast into it
Something like
14-32

meaning 1 and 4 fire together
2 and 3 fire together

Ziggy
Ok, its set up 4-1-3-2 the now.

Just a stink of fuel, could it be over fuelling.

Its strange why it won't rev over 2000rpm.





Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
Check the timing, then check the water temp sensor (blue coded sensor on the inlet manifold) and wiring to it.
Timing seems spot on, although the bottom mark was an arse to see.

I thought it could be the fuel filter that needed replaced.

So i found the fuel filter, disconnected the line from it that heads to the engine bay.
I then got a friend to turn over the car and fuel pissed out and a fair rate, so its safe to say my fuel filter was ok.

I then unplugged the coolant sensor (blue one by the manifold) and the car eventually started after a fair few attempts (6 or so and battery flat)
And idled for 5 mins or so then cut out, theres a 1/4 tank of fuel left so i'm ****ed if i know what it can be and why it keeps cutting out and taking ages to start

Anyone any ideas ?

I'm still stumped to why the car will not run

I don't suppose anyone can point me in the direction of the MAP SENSOR and what earth wires should be attached and where in my engine bay ?

As i have been told this could be part of my problem, earth wire coming from somewhere beside the coils is broken or not there it could cause idling and starting issues.

As i have tried looking for the earth wires but don't know what wires are meant to be where.
And as for the MAP SENSOR, i'm ****ed if i can find it even though i'm probably looking right at it


This is what i'm looking at





Anyones help is appreciated.
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Old 11-10-2011   #5
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

MAP sensor is on the back of an almost triangular plate, generally located near the ECU. Check that thhe hoses for the MAP are attached and neither holed or cracked nor full of carp.

Most significant earth lead is from the top of the gearbox to the passenger side wing. You can alwways run extra earths from the earth on the wing, or use a single jump lead from battery negative to part of the engine (a metal part!) as a test.
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Last edited by fingers99; 11-10-2011 at 02:01.
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Old 12-10-2011   #6
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
MAP sensor is on the back of an almost triangular plate, generally located near the ECU. Check that thhe hoses for the MAP are attached and neither holed or cracked nor full of carp.

Most significant earth lead is from the top of the gearbox to the passenger side wing. You can alwways run extra earths from the earth on the wing, or use a single jump lead from battery negative to part of the engine (a metal part!) as a test.

I must be stupid !!!
I still can't see the MAP sensor or the hoses
I'll have another look around for the earth lead, where about on the gearbox and the wing is it attached ?

I don't suppose anyone has pictures ?
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Last edited by d1ckyboy; 12-10-2011 at 00:29.
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Old 12-10-2011   #7
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Top of the gearbox (on the selector mechanism) and generally on the inside of the wing. Look for a big, thick, black lead.

MAP sensor -- I'm assuming this is a Mk1 8v. If so, just pop off the air filter housing (all of it) and look for a long black (relatively thin) tube exiting either the throttle body or the inlet manifold. If there are two from the inlet mani, one will be for the brake servo, the other will lead you straight to the MAP.
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Old 12-10-2011   #8
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

The firing order is 1-3-4-2
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/1129...ing-order.html

4-1-3-2 (or 1-3-2-4) is wrong and explains why it wont run.
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Last edited by WhiteSei; 12-10-2011 at 16:56.
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Old 12-10-2011   #9
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

*UPDATE*

I eventually found the MAP SENSOR

It was right on front of me all the time when i was looking for it.
I unplugged it and tried starting the car and it wouldn't fire into life at all, tried disconnecting the blue coolant sensor and nothing.
So i plugged both the plugs back in and tried starting the car again.
NOTHING HAPPENED YET AGAIN !!!!!!


I did a resistance check on the TDC Sensor and it was within the limits set out in the haynes manual.
So it seems ok too
And all the plugs are firing.
The cars getting fuel as throttle body is honking of fuel and you can see it.

The Earth wire was under the battery tray and bolts onto the gearbox.
I removed this and cleaned up where its bolts to for the best connection.
Still didn't help...

So i'm ****ed if i know what it could be now
My next step was to find out where to order a new MAP sensor and coolant sensor from.
And hope its one of them.
Or buy a fault code reader and see what that comes up with (Here goes my next thread)



Quote Originally Posted by WhiteSei View Post
The firing order is 1-3-4-2

4-1-3-2 (or 1-3-2-4) is wrong and explains why it wont run.

Is that 1-3-4-2 like this on the coils ?



And plug one is the one next to the cambelt ?
Plugs left to right are:

1-2-3-4

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Last edited by d1ckyboy; 12-10-2011 at 19:26.
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Old 13-10-2011   #10
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Don't confuse the firing order (in fact, forget about it altogether, it won't help) with the order the leads go into the coils.

The order on the cylinder head (2nd pic) is right. The order on the coils (first photo) is wrong.

The leads from cylinders 2 and 3 go into one coil, those from 1 and 4 into the other. Providing you stick to those pairings, it'll be OK (all else being OK!).

You'll actually see the lead orderr stamped onto the bracket which holds the coil packs on.
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Old 13-10-2011   #11
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

For the rest (but do this later!) seeing that there is an earth lead is not hat is required. Remove the lead at both ends, clean it up well, coat ith vaseline or silicone gease and re-attach.

For the sensors, test them it a multimeter. The temp sensor should give a steady decrease in resistance from 10000 ohm @ 0C to 200 ohm @ 90C.

The MAP sensor should give (plug disconnected, engine on) 5volts between A and B, 5 volts between A and earth. It's orth checking that the pipe is clear and that the rubber ends to the hose are not cracked.
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Old 13-10-2011   #12
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

For the rest (but do this later!) seeing that there is an earth lead is not hat is required. Remove the lead at both ends, clean it up well, coat ith vaseline or silicone gease and re-attach.

For the sensors, test them it a multimeter. The temp sensor should give a steady decrease in resistance from 10000 ohm @ 0C to 200 ohm @ 90C.

The MAP sensor should give (plug disconnected, engine on) 5volts between A and B, 5 volts between A and earth. It's orth checking that the pipe is clear and that the rubber ends to the hose are not cracked.
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Old 13-10-2011   #13
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

As you stated you said the timing seems fine. i would be inclined to check that again. you will prob find it a tooth out either way as these engines will still run but causes problems such as hard to start and wont rev above 2000 rpm. has it ever had a rocker cover gasket fitted ? as iv seen it many times before a bit of old hard black sealer falls down the cambelt area and then causes the belt to jump a tooth and cause all the syptems you have said. The easy way of checking you timing is buy a new cambelt GENUINE and they have two yellow marks which will line up the bottom pulley which should be at 10 o clock and then another mark on the top pulley which will be about 9 o clock. Also remove the rubber cover from the gearbox which is on the top and there be a mark on the fly wheel which lines up on the last triangle mark on the gearbox. then you know its all timed up and all ok.

Also i would avoid jump starting these cars as the engine e.c.u s do not like the spike of voltage. i would just charge the battery off the car.
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Old 13-10-2011   #14
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

Why would you spend money on a new cam belt to check your timing? Iv had my mk 1 8valve run a tooth out on the cam belt retarded and advanced and cant notice any change.
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Old 13-10-2011   #15
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Re: *HELP* Punto 1.1 55 Sx not starting after plug, coil and lead change

It should be easy enough to check -- the mark for the camshaft is usually clear enough -- the point for the crankshaft is where the casting knecks back down.
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