Hi I have fitted a facet pump and removed the pump in the tank also extending the pipe that goes in the top of the pump so it is receiving fuel from bottom of tank...
Having disconnected fuel supply from filter to engine and ran pump with 12v source fuel is moving through
But turning over engine won't start pump is a facet 4.0-6.0 psi the newer posi flow...
I understand the car has the mechanical pump

Am I giving it to much pressure the idea Was to splice it into the cars wiring for standard pump but after finding correct wiring no response from pump.
As mentioned firing it with a 12v source car just turns over, I was going to put it on ignition relay as splicing original wiring failed..
Thanks in advance if you know.


And the idea was to run thinned veg oil.

was car in a crash?

I'm not sure why the car been in a crash was asked but it was on this forum years ago under the user name rockbottom.

flisko said:

was car in a crash?

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Sorry really should have answered the actual question as this is probably relevant, no it was running fine up until changing to the pump, what I have done is remove the original tank pump.. Extended top hose (sealed connection no air getting in.
The plastic sort of container the pump fits in. I have cut the bottom out of allowing extended pipe nearer the botom of tank... left all the spring mechanism and float in situ..
Basically I have fitted the facet on and with 12v supply have fuel coming from top of filter... The pipe that goes to the pump.. Facet has a filter and the cars one is also new....
Baffled lol

Bled air from filter , if housing has bleed point?

Have you bled the air from the injectors?

Checked the stop solenoid?

You cannot cause too much pressure to injection pump with the lift pump you have.

jackwhoo said:

Bled air from filter , if housing has bleed point?

Have you bled the air from the injectors?

Checked the stop solenoid

You cannot cause too much pressure to injection pump with the lift pump you have.

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Thank-you for your response
no I haven't done these things might I ask where abouts the stop solenoid is or what it is, I have disconnected the pipe from the filter that goes to the bosch mechanical pump and flowed fuel through so I believe this should have bled it, a steady supply is apparent perhaps as mentioned bleeding injectors may be the next step.
The stop solenoid has me baffled though.

Thanks.

Do you have a cable to pull to stop engine or is engine stopped by turning off the ignition key?

Which engine is it?

Ok I have read your posts on other threads.
if you are asking about jtd engine ignore my posts they don't apply.
When you mentioned Bosch mechanical pump I thought it was pre common rail engine.
If it's jtd the Bosch pump is the high pressure pump pressurising the fuel rail.

I think your problem is the facet pump is not providing enough pressure to the high pressure pump.

Your best option is find a used in tank pump.

Other wise use MES and look at fuel pressure while cranking , if it's low then you need to get the correct in tank pump for sure.

jackwhoo said:

Ok I have read your posts on other threads.
if you are asking about jtd engine ignore my posts they don't apply.
When you mentioned Bosch mechanical pump I thought it was pre common rail engine.
If it's jtd the Bosch pump is the high pressure pump pressurising the fuel rail.

I think your problem is the facet pump is not providing enough pressure to the high pressure pump.

Your best option is find a used in tank pump.

Other wise use MES and look at fuel pressure while cranking , if it's low then you need to get the correct in tank pump for sure.

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I have tried bleeding all the injectors and found that the last in-line furthest from the bosch mechanical pump on the jtd is not actually letting out any fuel...
I think the facet is rated for up to 160hp and as I'm using it only as a pusher pump I can't understand why the bosch would need a a high rated pump.
I'm quite gutted that I've gutted lol the original as I didn't want to have three pumps running and knacker seals in bosch pump or something silly..
The only thing I could think is the pipe that used to go into the top of the pump in the tank which I extended to reach bottom of tank has sucked up crap and blocked the main filter..
The original had a mesh on the bottom had I just removed this the veg oil would probably have not strained it as you could hear it struggling.
These will run on a mixture of veg and diesel and at the moment only diesel and redex in the tank..
I wonder if ecu senses I'm not using the factory pump also as it is unplugged...
As I tried splicing into the wiring for factory in tank pump it had blown a fuse for that which makes me think facet is higher rated,
As mentioned I've tried using a direct 12v supply to facet and let it run before turning it over.
Perhaps your right on the facet I may try a flow test on original pump.

Also to note in case I've been really stupid the facet is on the right hand side fuel line as you look from the front of the car is this correct it must be as looked at corresponding arrows on filter housing.
That being the arrow pointing in when looking from front of engine bay.
The other arrow pointing toward the pipe going to the bosch pump.

Thanks for helping I do hope this pump out under powered.

dubsential said:

I have tried bleeding all the injectors and found that the last in-line furthest from the bosch mechanical pump on the jtd is not actually letting out any fuel...
I think the facet is rated for up to 160hp and as I'm using it only as a pusher pump I can't understand why the bosch would need a a high rated pump.
I'm quite gutted that I've gutted lol the original as I didn't want to have three pumps running and knacker seals in bosch pump or something silly..
The only thing I could think is the pipe that used to go into the top of the pump in the tank which I extended to reach bottom of tank has sucked up crap and blocked the main filter..
The original had a mesh on the bottom had I just removed this the veg oil would probably have not strained it as you could hear it struggling.
These will run on a mixture of veg and diesel and at the moment only diesel and redex in the tank..
I wonder if ecu senses I'm not using the factory pump also as it is unplugged...
As I tried splicing into the wiring for factory in tank pump it had blown a fuse for that which makes me think facet is higher rated,
As mentioned I've tried using a direct 12v supply to facet and let it run before turning it over.
Perhaps your right on the facet I may try a flow test on original pump.

Also to note in case I've been really stupid the facet is on the right hand side fuel line as you look from the front of the car is this correct it must be as looked at corresponding arrows on filter housing.
That being the arrow pointing in when looking from front of engine bay.
The other arrow pointing toward the pipe going to the bosch pump.

Thanks for helping I do hope this pump out under powered.

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By far your best course of action is Put it back how it was when it ran.
Facet pump is not up to the job in either pressure or flow.
Good luck and keep us informed.

jackwhoo said:

By far your best course of action is Put it back how it was when it ran.
Facet pump is not up to the job in either pressure or flow.
Good luck and keep us informed.

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I've put the pump back in, thing is it was in a sort of bucket type container in my ifinet wisdom and with me trying to extend the pipe which goes in the top of the original pump and as such cut the bottom of the container out with a jigsaw...
As I wasn't planning on using the original obviously this was ok but I'm thinking the container is to do with keeping fuel from running to the back of fuel tank on hills and keeping pump from running dry... So I've fudged it back together and removed the mesh from the bottom of original in tank as I believe it have been restricting slightly thicker fuel I plan to use.
I will try to leave the facet in and run in series I don't see it working and if not I will have to get some fuel line to bridge the gap.
The car is mapped originally to nearly 130hp and also has Ron box tuning mod... Injector rail type. Egr is blanked and has oil breather converted to mini filter, full stainless with decat, it has a gsr induction with k@n apollo.
So it's running a bit of power
And yes it ran fine originally, just fancying some cheaper fuelling for the old gal...

The car is originally from previous forum member "rockbottom" he had it on the rollers before exhaust, egr, oil breather mod, decat so anyone's guess what it runs oh and I've also just fitted a stage 2 clutch.

I plan maybe a turbo upgrade or have the piddly one modified but the clutch probably won't handle it.

If anyone knows of anything that can be done with the turbo I would be interested, originally a 80hp car it's not variable vane and believe it's the ihi 20.

Thank-you for your interest I wish I hadn't had the jigsaw out lol..

Respect Josh.

The in-tank pump (in any car) is a lifter which does all the donkey work, and eventually fails.

Some cars - such as the 3 litre volvo - have a second fuel pump fitted in the system. The second pump is a pusher which pressurises the fuel as it shoves it to the engine.

The two types of pump are different -lifters and pushers.

As somebody has mentioned, it's probably low fuel pressure that's causing your problems. You could try fitting a second fuel pump in-line.

glenn2602 said:

The in-tank pump (in any car) is a lifter which does all the donkey work, and eventually fails.

Some cars - such as the 3 litre volvo - have a second fuel pump fitted in the system. The second pump is a pusher which pressurises the fuel as it shoves it to the engine.

The two types of pump are different -lifters and pushers.

As somebody has mentioned, it's probably low fuel pressure that's causing your problems. You could try fitting a second fuel pump in-line.

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Thank-you mate I have popped the old in tank one in as mentioned I just hope the facet isn't actually gonna act to be a limiter of the tanks pump and basically drop the pressure.
The in tank one with my veg mixture thinned right down was clearly struggling because of the mesh screen on the bottom of the in tank donkey pump lol..
I know it's to stop debris entering but no used oil will be going in it.
Somewhere on the net someone mentioned using straight veg oil in a jtd even in winter...
I won't be doing this but have faith the engine is good for it I'm surprised the bosch pump hasn't more guts to get the fuel through But if facet pump is actually causing reduced fuel pressure...
Wish I bought a red top facet now I know this but they are pricey...
With mesh removed from original all should be well even if I bypass the facet back to original design.
Who knows I my make a twin tank veg system and use facet in that somewhere lol or sell it as it's basically brand new, what is odd is the facet blew the fuse for the original wiring with the original pump bypassed, making you think it is drawing More amps, strange I do wonder if the ecu senses that pump was disconnected and said system error or measured a different pressure but with laptop not working can't get it on the fiat ecu scan, maybe something will need resetting hopefully not.

Thanks again.

I will return with the knowledge when British weather stops pissing it down.


It's just had its belt done new gearbox the stage 2 clutch I got cheap of eBay new thermostat and water pump.
Think I've got the fiat bug oh and a new sump as we managed to crack the old one putting gearbox on don't ask what a bitch good excuse to change oil again even though it hasn't been anywhere.
Just turned over it will of had a good flush who knows it's getting expensive but it is funny what ya can keep up with.

The factory pump should be fine with what you are attempting .
I was going to suggest leaving the facet pump in but not electrically connected, but don't know which pump model it is.
If you can easily blow through it in direction of flow it should not restrict flow appreciably.
You will need to remove it at some point but leave for now.
On an older non common rail diesel injection system the facet pump probably would have worked.
Don't worry about red top pump that is unlikely to have worked either and would have cost much more £.
Yes the bucket the pump sits in in tank is there for a reason. Don't worry no one has ever not made mistakes, you are learning from yours.

jackwhoo said:

The factory pump should be fine with what you are attempting .
I was going to suggest leaving the facet pump in but not electrically connected, but don't know which pump model it is.
If you can easily blow through it in direction of flow it should not restrict flow appreciably.
You will need to remove it at some point but leave for now.
On an older non common rail diesel injection system the facet pump probably would have worked.
Don't worry about red top pump that is unlikely to have worked either and would have cost much more £.
Yes the bucket the pump sits in in tank is there for a reason. Don't worry no one has ever not made mistakes, you are learning from yours.

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Cheers bud I have it started now
and all seems well I was simply running the facet direct 12v feed.. For testing...I'm using my wiring skills now to get the facet on the Orange ignition switch wire which is the switched live I'm not sure what sort of rating this has amp wise, the facet recommends a 3 amp fuse and without checking with multimeter not sure exact amount it draws but less than 3 amp obviously.
So my next question.. Now I have my switched connection being the orange ignition wire, with the small amount of current facet is drawing will I get away with not setting it up on a relay with a permanent live and using suggested 3 amp inline fuse and chance just running direct.
I'm sure this would probably blow a fuse in fuse box not sure which for Orange ignition and it's a bit naughty but perhaps popping in a larger fuse, I know I know its naughty but I'm being lazy and can't be bothered buying more bits and pieces and I know wiring has to be higher rated anyways for purpose..
Well maybe be not in China lucky if you get a strand in some of the appliances lol..
No offence most stuffs made there just some of the dodgy stuff I'm meaning that I've investigated...

confused.


good you have it running.


Do you have running on just the facet pump or the original pump?


don't worry I am not Chinese but well done being aware of potential to cause offence.

dubsential said:

Cheers bud I have it started now
and all seems well I was simply running the facet direct 12v feed.. For testing...I'm using my wiring skills now to get the facet on the Orange ignition switch wire which is the switched live I'm not sure what sort of rating this has amp wise, the facet recommends a 3 amp fuse and without checking with multimeter not sure exact amount it draws but less than 3 amp obviously.
So my next question.. Now I have my switched connection being the orange ignition wire, with the small amount of current facet is drawing will I get away with not setting it up on a relay with a permanent live and using suggested 3 amp inline fuse and chance just running direct.
I'm sure this would probably blow a fuse in fuse box not sure which for Orange ignition and it's a bit naughty but perhaps popping in a larger fuse, I know I know its naughty but I'm being lazy and can't be bothered buying more bits and pieces and I know wiring has to be higher rated anyways for purpose..
Well maybe be not in China lucky if you get a strand in some of the appliances lol..
No offence most stuffs made there just some of the dodgy stuff I'm meaning that I've investigated...

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I'm going to have to keep her topped with plenty of chippy oil lol from now on for hills... I. Do thin it down with petrol believe it or not don't need alot and it goes like stink and actually
Does with all that fat burning lol.
I did it in an old golf ahu engine the bosch in that had some clout so does this but it loves it's lift pump..
Someone mentioned that these in tank pumps often need replacing, I'm thinking the mesh on the bottom is clogged in most cases but bushes do wear out after all...
I have no mesh now but really I'm not filling it up with sand so I think it will help with the veg suction ability..
Il just keep a spare pump in the car and get a new bucket from scrappy at some point.

Are you saying the factory pump is needed to make it run?

If it's running on factory pump you don't need the other pump