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Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?
I don't think Fiat will get it, I think Magna will.
Fiat would like the large (Insignia) and medium (Astra) floorpans, but apart from that I don't know what else GM Europe has? Fiat has the best engines. And, given that whatever happens anything other than minimum plant closure is politically undesirable, I see GME as a poisoned chalice. The two groups cover much of the same model areas and are in competition. I know there are already synergies, but given that the world market for cars looks to be shrinking structurally I just don't see the point of combining, other than that perhaps Opel might cover northern Europe and Fiat has the south, and a union could form a sort of dual empire. But why? However, whoever has control has the ultimate power, and Magna has access to Russian money and production facilities. Either way I don't see a good future for all the GME, or even Fiat, factories. Even before this economic meltdown the world auto industry was producing too many cars to achieve decent profit, and I'd like to know how either buyer can alter this structural reality - as I see it.
Perhaps Fiat sees GME as a springboard to models readily desirable in the US; but they don't much like the Astra (Saturn), even if it has gone over there with the wrong engine.
I just hope Fiat can get its new engines and models out quickly, and bring successful cars to market in the US. Fiat will do increasingly well in Europe and its other established markets..
Fiat would like the large (Insignia) and medium (Astra) floorpans, but apart from that I don't know what else GM Europe has? Fiat has the best engines. And, given that whatever happens anything other than minimum plant closure is politically undesirable, I see GME as a poisoned chalice. The two groups cover much of the same model areas and are in competition. I know there are already synergies, but given that the world market for cars looks to be shrinking structurally I just don't see the point of combining, other than that perhaps Opel might cover northern Europe and Fiat has the south, and a union could form a sort of dual empire. But why? However, whoever has control has the ultimate power, and Magna has access to Russian money and production facilities. Either way I don't see a good future for all the GME, or even Fiat, factories. Even before this economic meltdown the world auto industry was producing too many cars to achieve decent profit, and I'd like to know how either buyer can alter this structural reality - as I see it.
Perhaps Fiat sees GME as a springboard to models readily desirable in the US; but they don't much like the Astra (Saturn), even if it has gone over there with the wrong engine.
I just hope Fiat can get its new engines and models out quickly, and bring successful cars to market in the US. Fiat will do increasingly well in Europe and its other established markets..
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Fiat has the Insignia floorpan doesn't it? Croma...
Why would they want the Astra floorpan... they have the Bravo/Alfa 159.
Why would they want the Astra floorpan... they have the Bravo/Alfa 159.
The Insignia is a new floorpan. The Croma is on the old Signum. The forthcoming Astra also has a greatly modified floorpan which is supposedly good. However, I agree, the lengthened Bravo chassis does well enough for the Lancia Delta, and there must be a Chrysler floorpan for the new big Alfa, which seems to be what Fiat wants badly. Apparently 75% of the cost of a new car comes from the basic structure, which is why there is so much sharing - GP/Corsa/Qubo/Nippa etc., and all the others...
I really struggle to see what Fiat would gain that's actually worth gaining. Yes Vauxhall sells better than Fiat in the UK, but that's more based on past reputation rather than any shortcoming of Fiat nowadays.
Okay Fiat don't do so well in the Bravo/Croma market, but Vauxhalls offerings are hardly outstanding either. I think Fiat should stick to Chrysler & work on continuing their own product development without worrying about GMs problems.
Okay Fiat don't do so well in the Bravo/Croma market, but Vauxhalls offerings are hardly outstanding either. I think Fiat should stick to Chrysler & work on continuing their own product development without worrying about GMs problems.
I dont go for the politics of what is happening and the why's and where for's but I dont think the yanks will let fiat have they way for a second time..
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chrysler-suicide-watch-45by-executive-fiat/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chrysler-suicide-watch-45by-executive-fiat/
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Fiat pulled out yesterday anyway. It looks like Magna now, with German government backing. GM goes into Chapter eleven on Monday, probably, and GME needs to be detached before then or the American creditors will want to flog it in a fire sale.
By the time today is over I would expect the Magna/Opel deal to be pretty much done.
I'd not expect both British factories to be there in twelve months though.
By the time today is over I would expect the Magna/Opel deal to be pretty much done.
I'd not expect both British factories to be there in twelve months though.
Did they, I wasn't aware of that?
I suppose the new Fiat direct injection 1.8 is considered pretty good. 200bhp (in the new Delta), massive torque, 0-60 in 7.6 (automatic) and 36 mpg mixed. Give it Multiair and it'll really be something else, and it will give up to 230 bhp too.
In fact by next year Fiat will have an astonishingly good engine range, but yes, no 1.6. I guess the 1.4s will have to bridge it.
I think taking on Opel would have given Fiat indigestion, and Chrysler will be enough to be going on with. No government wants to see redundancies, but in order for any restructuring to succeed this will have to happen, and it will get nasty out there. Fiat/Alfa/Lancia will soon have a very interesting and desirable range of cars. Next year I think fuel prices will rocket again and this will help them greatly as well.
I suppose the new Fiat direct injection 1.8 is considered pretty good. 200bhp (in the new Delta), massive torque, 0-60 in 7.6 (automatic) and 36 mpg mixed. Give it Multiair and it'll really be something else, and it will give up to 230 bhp too.
In fact by next year Fiat will have an astonishingly good engine range, but yes, no 1.6. I guess the 1.4s will have to bridge it.
I think taking on Opel would have given Fiat indigestion, and Chrysler will be enough to be going on with. No government wants to see redundancies, but in order for any restructuring to succeed this will have to happen, and it will get nasty out there. Fiat/Alfa/Lancia will soon have a very interesting and desirable range of cars. Next year I think fuel prices will rocket again and this will help them greatly as well.
Thinking about this long and hard, I think its best Fiat dont get involved.
I think FIAT should buy Porsche instead................
...and stick a flat 6 turbo in a re-revival of the Seicento :devil:
But seriously, other than being one step closer to world domination I see nothing really good in Fiat taking over Vauxhall/Opel. Fiat has everything but the best reputation and even that's improving. Either that or the other makes are screwing up - electrics in newer cars really suck, no matter who made them.
They could do with your reasoning at fiat you need to relocate to Italy instead of scotland..nice and warm there for the wife and kids and you wouldnt need under trays to cover holes in the roof..
Well they could keep the Porker badge for the 911, rebadge (and re-body ) the real mid engined ones as Alfas, and rename that 4x4 thing the Lancia PorcaMadonna!
i'm quite happy Fiats deal to buy GM Europe didn't come through. Fiat itself is only back on its feet after years of losses & mis managament, the last thing they needed was the burden of Opel/Vauxhall & SAAB!! Plus reports suggest that full financial details weren't forthcoming from GM on how healthy its European wing was, so Fiat were right to back out of the deal.
Fiat are going to have enough on their hands trying to turn Chrysler around (that deal BTW i think is a stroke of pure genius!), Fiat in my humble opinion couldn't have afforded GM Europe too!
Fiat are going to have enough on their hands trying to turn Chrysler around (that deal BTW i think is a stroke of pure genius!), Fiat in my humble opinion couldn't have afforded GM Europe too!
Fiat are not looking to turn around chrysler but simply looking for a already purpose made launch pad to enter the states. As for GM, I think the writing is on the wall.
