Tuning Cold air feed for standard airbox
- Thread starter robjnr
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Tuning Cold air feed for standard airbox
randysbits
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Next time i am over your way i will give you a shout
and we could both ponder on all this " ram air technology " PM sent
pdtrewern
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I can't see water ingress is going to be an issue with this modification. We had a CAI on my ITR and it was mounted lower to the ground:
http://ianjoberns.fotopic.net/p3242746.html
http://ianjoberns.fotopic.net/p3787169.html
With the above and the Panda, the filter element is still in place - just keep it clean and contaminant-free
Of course, the length of inlet is going to have an effect.
http://ianjoberns.fotopic.net/p3242746.html
http://ianjoberns.fotopic.net/p3787169.html
With the above and the Panda, the filter element is still in place - just keep it clean and contaminant-free
Of course, the length of inlet is going to have an effect.
Cant remember what the official top speed was supposed to be, 74 maybe ??
I think the previous air-cooled model was 65mph !!!I once managed 74mph (according to SatNav) in my AC ... downhill, with the wind behind me
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robjnr
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Care to explain mate?
It probably won't make a difference on the Panda as the filter is still located in the original place. With the ITR, the filter was behind the bumper and has a greater effect:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_2_185/ai_n13503093/
I like your modification and will look into doing something similar myself
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_2_185/ai_n13503093/
I like your modification and will look into doing something similar myself
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robjnr
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One reason i'm not keen on the GSR is becuase of the length of pipe that connects to the filter. Now i'm not a tuning god or anything like that (far from it) but surely for best performance the filter should be as close to the throttle body as it can,
Oh and thanks post up if you decided to modify the intake pipe
Oh and thanks
post up if you decided to modify the intake pipe
Why? Some cars have the air filter a fair distance from the throttle body, some have it much closer.
randysbits
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Dependant on engine mods, there is a fine line in which the length on pipe can have it's greatest improvement, moving it away from the throttle body will increase torque, with a little bit of trial and error.
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robjnr
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Like i said i'm no tuning god, so just trying to make common sense of it,
and my common sense says it will take much longer to suck in air when the filter is further away from the throttle body.
The air still needs to pass through the filter and providing it's not restrictive it isn't an issue where it is. Given the same length of intake piping I can't see why it'd make a difference. I can't see how it could take 'longer'.
Cant remember what the official top speed was supposed to be, 74 maybe ??
I think the previous air-cooled model was 65mph !!!I once managed 74mph (according to SatNav) in my AC ... downhill, with the wind behind me
I can beat that lol, i managed 110mph accordin to tomtom down a big hill on the way back from oswestry, booted the car before i got to the hill and kept my foot planted and reached 110mph in 5th, wind noise was louder than the engine haha
managed 130 in a 1.1 metro down the same hill, the clocks stopped at 130 so i was probably going even faster, checked the tyres when i got home and realised that the tyres were rated for 95 lol
Some laws of physics:
Longer total length of tube = more flow resistance to air moving through it
and more bends = more resistance to air moving through it
and rough inner surface = more resistance to air flowing through tube
(try blowing through a short length of garden hose: easy. Now, try a complete roll of hose: can't do it. Same laws in action)
Each one of these is a criteria considered in fluid dynamics, and the degree of reduction in flow rate and pressure is determined by Bernoulli's principle (its a long time since my Chemical Engineering HNC, but this might help explain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle). And the phenomemon of pipe friction is covered here: http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm
So, in theory, your mod should actually make things worse. (A short, straight and smooth-bored air intake should, correspondingly, show a significant improvement)
But, you may be countering these flow losses by the 'ram effect' of the air being pushed into the pipe as a result of the car moving forwards. At speed, this effect could be pretty significant (similar in some respects to adding a turbo- or super-charger). But off the line from a standing start, the effect should (in theory) be minimal.
As to temperature, I doubt the air immediately in front of the car is any cooler that the air immediately behind the grille when the car is moving -- the effects of a wind blowing through the under bonnet space at 50mph will mean its all pretty well the same temperature. But in traffic it could make a degree of difference.
But, in spite of all that, a neat job done well. And it makes you happy, which is what you set out to become
Longer total length of tube = more flow resistance to air moving through it
and more bends = more resistance to air moving through it
and rough inner surface = more resistance to air flowing through tube
(try blowing through a short length of garden hose: easy. Now, try a complete roll of hose: can't do it. Same laws in action)
Each one of these is a criteria considered in fluid dynamics, and the degree of reduction in flow rate and pressure is determined by Bernoulli's principle (its a long time since my Chemical Engineering HNC, but this might help explain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle). And the phenomemon of pipe friction is covered here: http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm
So, in theory, your mod should actually make things worse. (A short, straight and smooth-bored air intake should, correspondingly, show a significant improvement)
But, you may be countering these flow losses by the 'ram effect' of the air being pushed into the pipe as a result of the car moving forwards. At speed, this effect could be pretty significant (similar in some respects to adding a turbo- or super-charger). But off the line from a standing start, the effect should (in theory) be minimal.
As to temperature, I doubt the air immediately in front of the car is any cooler that the air immediately behind the grille when the car is moving -- the effects of a wind blowing through the under bonnet space at 50mph will mean its all pretty well the same temperature. But in traffic it could make a degree of difference.
But, in spite of all that, a neat job done well. And it makes you happy, which is what you set out to become
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robjnr
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On the bonnet there is a rubber strip and it only goes half way along and it stop air, water and suppose crap getting in the intake, it's almost completely sealed from all sources of air, oh and I read somewhere that ribbed piping makes turbalance and that makes for colder air.
I honestly think with the length of corrugated piping that you have, that it will make absolutely no difference in cooling the ambient air.
Why would turbulance cool the air?
Is there airflow from under the headlamps, or is it sealed off with the shape of the bumper?
See what you mean about the rubber strip, but there is the rest of the unsealed bonnet where air would get through.
I would suggest that most of the air that gets in via the openings in the bumper, passing the rad as it goes, will leave the underbonnet area by going out under the car -- the rear of the engine area is quite open at the bottom -- and out via the wheel arch area (where the drive shafts and steering system pass through) Very little will try and leave around the bonnet edges, so that half rubber will not be having much effect there. (It is there to stop rain draining inside the car via the heater fresh air intake when the car is parked)
Turbulence = friction, and friction = heat.
What is true though is that a ribbed tube offers a greater internal surface area, and if the surface is cooler than the air passing through it (not likely in this situation), then it will cool the air better than a smooth tube of the same length would (the principal of a heat exchanger).
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robjnr
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Maybe I'm wrong about the turbulence making colder air, I did read somewhere about it but can't find it now. I disagree about the airfeed not doing anything, standard pipe isn't getting any air directed to the filter, the pipe I've put in IS directing a good source of cold air, but you still think that it's doing nothing?
