I'm going to look at a 2018 Waze/City Cross at the w/end, I like the styling as I love the 4x4 'look' but don't need the offroading capability.

I've had MJ Panda's mostly until 3yrs ago when I changed to a different brand completley. I regretted it straight away, and wish I'd kept my MJ Panda. Had the yearning to get another ever since.

As Fiat no longer make the diesel engine there's just the TA or the 1.2 69bhp available for the Waze/City Cross.

What I'm hesitant about and need advice on is the 1.2 engine. My current car (Citroen Cactus 82bhp 3pot growler) has a terrible lack of power at roundabouts and doesn't have the acceleration to get you out of trouble, or overtaking at times. Once it's running along the dual carraigeway it's fine and never had such a comfy car. But it's not a Panda.

To add to my worry, a friend of mine had a Fiat 500 with the 1.2 engine and she contacted Watchdog who filmed the Stig tryng to get it up our Cornish hills in St Austell and it just wouldnt have it. She's since got shot of the 500 and bought an Ibiza.

So, has the 1.2 improved and can now actually get up steep hills, is it better at accelerating at roundabouts and has it got the oomph to get you out of trouble if you need it. My Cactus is 89bph and the thought of coming down to 69bhp is quite a concern to say the least. I don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire and get car that's going to be just as underpowered or more underpowered as my Cactus is. i know it's not going to drive like an MJ but you do need something with a little bit of grunt to get around Cornwall with all the hills. I remember the original Panda 998 FIRE engine when I had a few of those in the 80's and it was an amazing engine, but since then we've had the EU regs to consider which seems to have done more harm than good with petrol (and diesel) engines. Pfffft

Oh and mpg is that going to be around 45/50mpg mixed country/urban/motorway? Or a pitiful 35-40mpg

Welcome back. I'd have a go in a Twin Air if I was you. The TA Waze 4x4 offer running until end of the month. Needs building and registering by end of June. All the go you'll ever need. Worth adding DAB, seat height adjust and heated mirrors making car around £12500. Substantial discount, lot of car if plan on keeping. 1.2 really nice at 70mph but not much fun and won't get you safely out of the way of other traffic.

First off, the 'hill' issue no longer exists.

Secondly, only you will know what's enough. I bought a Twinair and keep it 5 days. Hated it. Each has their own preference. My best advice is to avoid all advice. Specially this.

The 1.2 isn't fast but can get along fine but you will not get the grunt/pull of the twinair or diesel. Then again, I like my engines quiet and smooth and I am an habitual gear-skipper - you cannot do that in the twinair nor the diesel just as you cannot expect a slug in the back when you dump the throttle at 5mph in 2nd in the 1.2

MPG varies. Budget for around 42mpg unless you drive miserly.

Take one for a drive and see.

Greatest compliment can pay the 1.2 is if Fiat offered me a 1.2 Lounge for every April to October then gave me my TA 4x4 back I'd take it. Did 3500 miles commuting in a Lounge. If I'd coughed up for a TA Lounge maybe I'd still have it. Though winter weather makes me nervous, not in the 4x4 though.

Thanks for all the useful advice/information.

This particular CityCross/Waze is an ex demo. I can't stretch to a brand new unregistered Cross/Waze. Although it's not being offered much less than a brand new one I might add. I do tend to miss gears at times, so the TA seems unsuitable. And from what I've read the 1.2 is marginally more economical than the TA. The TA's only seem available in dedicated 4x4 versions and I can't afford those and don't need 4x4. I do tend to bumble around locally but do occasionally fly down the dual carriageway at speed, but as for off roading Im a bit long in the tooth for all that.

hmm... seems like the 1.2 will be slightly underpowered, I don't need speed but I do like to have some power to fall back on because of all the idiots on the road, not because I want to beat anyone at the lights.

I'll let you all know what happens when test drive this one and what I've decided. Thanks again for all your input, much appreciated.

The TA with 4x4 can be a bit of a drag.
1st gear is very low and the engine spins up very quickly, so it's easy to hit the limiter when trying for a spirited getaway.

The rest of the time the low first just bugs the hell out of you, you're always trying to short shift out of it so you can get a move on. Commuting in traffic can be a bit painful, especially after 4 years!

Don't get me wrong, I haven't a downer on the TA or the 4x4, I ran a 4x4 TA for 4 years.
Had a few 500 TA loaners and they've been pretty slick, and the Panda 4x4 is really impressive off road, it's no mudplugger, it's more like a mountain goat, it's so light it just skips across dodgy surfaces without breaking sweat.

We've had both early and late 1.2 Pandas (euro 5 and euro 6 at the same time) and the later one did feel a bit strangled and does seem to lack a bit of torque higher up the rev range compared to the earlier one which is much freer revving, though nothing like that 500 on Watchdog.

Where the TA can sound a bit harsh and vibey when pushed a bit hard, the 1.2 is a lot smoother, right up to when the valves start bouncing!

The 1.2 is pretty old spec these days, there are plenty that out perform it, but it's not all bad news, the engine actually a bit of a peach. It's pretty well made and there's little that goes wrong with it. It's cheap and easy to service and it's not overly complicated.
There aren't many engines out there that have been in production for 33 years with so little agro. (I think I've been without one for around 4 of those 33 years)

Nothing Fiat offer will match your Catsarse for comfort, so it's worth spending a bit of time behind the wheel of a potential Panda.
The seats squabs always feel a bit too flat and short behind the knee for me and the driving position is more sit up for dinner than lounge about in front of the telly, after a couple of hours I do feel it.
It's odd as they seem to have cracked that in the 500, the driving position and seats are a lot better.

If you aren't fussed about 4x4, you might get a better deal for a new normal 1.2 Panda, it'll handle a bit tighter than the jacked up City Cross/Waze, go for 15" wheels and they ride quite nicely.
Have a look at Carwow or Drive the Deal.

I find the 1.2 fine.
If it's a new one you wont get the full potential from it until its freed up a little and if you want to make use of the power available you need to use all the rev range. If you pussyfoot around below 3000 rpm and treat it like a Diesel it will feel a bit lacklustre. Work the engine and it'll bring a smile to your face I guarantee.

Percypanda said:

The TA's only seem available in dedicated 4x4 versions and I can't afford those and don't need 4x4. I do tend to bumble around locally but do occasionally fly down the dual carriageway at speed, but as for off roading Im a bit long in the tooth for all that.

hmm... seems like the 1.2 will be slightly underpowered, I don't need speed but I do like to have some power to fall back on because of all the idiots on the road, not because I want to beat anyone at the lights.

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You can get a second hand TwinAir in mid-spec Easy or top-spec Lounge versions of the regular 2wd Panda - they just stopped offering the TwinAir engine with these trim levels when the new emissions testing rules came in last year, so you should be able to find one up to 18 plate. These are 5 speed so you won't have quite such a problem with the really low 1st gear as people can with the 6 speed box in the 4x4 version. There's also a TwinAir 'Trekking' model which is 2wd but looks like the 4x4, a bit like the City Cross now. However these went out of production a few years ago so might be a bit older than you'd like.

The TwinAir definitely won't appreciate you skipping gears. However the performance is night & day compared to the 1.2. The 1.2 used to be really fun, I had one in 75bhp form in a Mk1 Punto, but I find it really tiring on the open road in the current guise - once up to speed it's fine and they're very smooth, but around town the clutch switch can make them jumpy and they begin to lose momentum too quickly on the open road when facing an incline. Brilliant as an entry engine but if you're used to the shove of a Multijet, the TwinAir will be more up your street I imagine.