Tuning TMC tuning box in Panda TA

[AusPanda]

Five days from ordering from the UK my TMC box arrived here in Australia.
I plugged it in, took. Five minutes. Good instructions, but same connection points as the MM tuning box. Harness and box look cheaper and box smaller than MM ME111T.

A rather more significant difference is that the TMC box works! First gear now feels really short as you hit redline so quickly. Second gear on some surfaces shows up more torque steer than I've experienced with this car before, and it feels like a slingshot as it charges through 2000-3500rpm.
It's only been a day, so I'll report back later. But I can tell you that after all the stuffing around with the MM tuning box, the TMC box is worth the extra money if you want something that actually does what it says it does.

 

[quotethepigeon]

anything further to report!? I'm picking up my twinair on Saturday and i'm already looking at tuning boxes.....

 

[AusPanda]

anything further to report!? I'm picking up my twinair on Saturday and i'm already looking at tuning boxes.....

The Eco mode has more punch than before; probably slightly less power than the previous 'normal' mode. I found Eco a waste of time before; it made the car feel gutless.

In 'normal' mode with the TMC, I'm still getting used to it. Sometimes it feels like everything happens at once in the mid-range. Total performance - eg full acceleration from a standing start to, say, 80km/h, feels quicker but not a hell of a lot.

It's the in-gear acceleration where this thing really shines. When in a hurry in the city, and either wanting to grab a gap in the traffic or quickly get up to speed, you just point and shoot. It really seems to make a big difference. In fact, where I used to need 3/4 to full throttle, it feels like at certain revs/speed etc I only need to squeeze the throttle to about a 1/3 for the same effect. Floor it and it feels like a rocket.

I think I will use Eco mode most of the time, and turn it off for a bit of fun or when in a hurry. I do worry about the strain on the powertrain over time, and plan to keep the car for a while. Yet for now, it really works and works well.

 

[gar074]

Sounds awesome, but dare I ask what effect it's had on the fuel consumption?

 

[Mercky]

The Eco mode has more punch than before; probably slightly less power than the previous 'normal' mode. I found Eco a waste of time before; it made the car feel gutless.



In 'normal' mode with the TMC, I'm still getting used to it. Sometimes it feels like everything happens at once in the mid-range. Total performance - eg full acceleration from a standing start to, say, 80km/h, feels quicker but not a hell of a lot.



It's the in-gear acceleration where this thing really shines. When in a hurry in the city, and either wanting to grab a gap in the traffic or quickly get up to speed, you just point and shoot. It really seems to make a big difference. In fact, where I used to need 3/4 to full throttle, it feels like at certain revs/speed etc I only need to squeeze the throttle to about a 1/3 for the same effect. Floor it and it feels like a rocket.



I think I will use Eco mode most of the time, and turn it off for a bit of fun or when in a hurry. I do worry about the strain on the powertrain over time, and plan to keep the car for a while. Yet for now, it really works and works well.

Interesting. My concern is that the 105 TA did not increase torque over the 85 when presumably they easily could have. Does this imply that the factory torque settings are within limits of the drivetrain specs but over that might be pushing it?

 

[The Pretender]

I believe the TwinAir's have the C 514.5 gearbox, capable of handling up to 300 Nm.

 

[Mercky]

I wonder why they dident give the 105 more shove? It's what makes the TA fun after all.

 

[The Pretender]

Still redlines at 6000 i reckon. ???

 

[R1NGA]

Still redlines at 6000 i reckon. ???

Yup

 

[gar074]

Booooo !!

 

[R1NGA]

While not strictly on-topic, I think a weaker link might be the clutch or transmission.
I've just had my TA man gearbox repaired under warranty. It had a chipped reverse idler gear and also a damaged mainshaft.

I'm pretty sure in my case it's because I have modified my Panda. At one point I was running 17in wheels, a TMC tuning box and towing a 550kg caravan (not far, maybe 50km).

Yet being reverse that failed, I'm wondering if the TMC box getting on boost earlier (?) and reversing up my step, short driveway (abt 7 metres long) had loaded up reverse more than it could handle.

I've read before about this g/box not being able to handle high torque; that FCA have built a 105hp version but kept torque at 145Nm like the 85hp version. That must be for a reason.

I've sold the 17s, have the std 14in steel rims and will go to 15in wheels at the most. I don't tow anymore, and if I do it's only be short distances with a box trailer <250kg.
As for the tuning box? I loved it at first, but then I noted it added vibration under low rpm high load conditions (inherent in my TA, but amplified with the TMC box) and difficulty in reversing cleanly out of my driveway without getting excessive vibrations.
Will I keep the TMC box? I'm 50/50 on that. Part of me wants to plug it back in and use Eco mode for most of the time (it makes the Panda only slightly less powerful than normal mod w/out the TMC) and switch Eco off when rolling and wanting a boost of power/torque.

Anyway, as I said, a bit off topic and mods, remove if you wish.

Have resurrected this original thread to answer this comment. For what it's worth, I do not believe that the TMC box caused damage to the Reverse gear, as you simply won't get much in the way of increased loads when reversing out of a driveway - unless maybe if that is up a 1-in-2 slope, 4-up at full throttle....

I also tow a trailer and it maybe weighs about 200kg empty and when I park it up I have to reverse it into the drive up a rise from the road, over the cambered pavement and up onto the gravel drive. I too get those vibrations you describe and I think this is down to the fact that reverse gear feels a higher ratio than First and requires higher revs and more clutch-slip to get the job done cleanly. I can see that this manoeuvre might load reverse a lot - and might damage it if the gear is not 100% engaged cleanly - but I would not attribute this to the TMC box in any way.

I have had experience of a TMC box and I can relate to the increased 'TA vibration' when accelerating at low revs/high-load/high-boost and this is undoubtedly down to the effect of that increased, boosted torque curve. A little bit of engineering sympathy at those low revs based on the understanding that that is exactly where the highest load (and conceivably maximum risk) occurs. From general forum feedback (in particular the 500 section) it seems that the TMC product has been well engineered and with good customer comms as well (they were a poster on here for a while).

Having said all that, you've identified the absolute point at which highest, 'increased' load appears on your car - Towing, Bigger Wheels, TMC box, Low Revs, High load, Highest boost - so to remove at least one of those components from the equation (even for a stock engine) and all should be OK.

Sorry to hear about the gearbox, but I don't think the TMC box would make enough of a difference as to kill the thing, all other points accepted as noted!

 

[AusPanda]

I think of all the times when I've been in a hurry and reversed up the driveway, still slipping the clutch (can't get up enough speed to release the clutch anyway) but the vibrations are pretty bad in that scenario. I don't remember reversing with a camper or caravan up hill. Maybe I did, and that caused it. Don't know.

I think I will put the tuning box back in, but as I said above, use it in Eco mode most of the time, and be a lot more gentle taking off in normal mode.

I'd really like the cut out moved up from 5500rpm to a bit over 6000rpm, that would make such a difference taking off in a hurry. I was going to get TMC to fiddle with my tuning box to get that, but now? Don't think so.

The Panda is just my go-to car when I don't have work cars, and the logical thing to do is to just leave it alone. Because I like to modify cars, I am not the least logical where the Panda is concerned...

 

[R1NGA]

I think I completely agree, just don't get bogged down with that reversing thing, as I am certain it's an inherent design 'feature' as your experience is exactly the same as mine. ECO with TMC is much like normal without, so keep the TMC box in there and have the ECO-OFF function as your Sport Mode, for when you're in the mood!

I maybe went too far with my mods on the previous Panda (114bhp supercharged 1.2 if you remember), so I won't take the same path again, but a TMC box is hardly what you'd call 'pushing the boundaries' really!

 

[AusPanda]

I've been thinking about what could've caused the reverse idler gear to chip, and it's just occurred to me how it might've happened.

When I towed the 550kg van, it had override brakes. I had to reverse it a couple times, and each time I forgot to disable the override.

I remember hitting a bump, or a driveway or something, and the brakes activated on the van. This would've caused a fair bit of strain on the g/box I think.

 

[R1NGA]

I've been thinking about what could've caused the reverse idler gear to chip, and it's just occurred to me how it might've happened.

When I towed the 550kg van, it had override brakes. I had to reverse it a couple times, and each time I forgot to disable the override.

I remember hitting a bump, or a driveway or something, and the brakes activated on the van. This would've caused a fair bit of strain on the g/box I think.

Far more likely to be the cause!

 

[TinyTurbo]

Five days from ordering from the UK my TMC box arrived here in Australia.
I plugged it in, took. Five minutes. Good instructions, but same connection points as the MM tuning box.
A rather more significant difference is that the TMC box works!.

Yup

Just purchased a similar tuning box - the RaceChip One. Seemed good value at £109. I chose this one rather than their more expensive versions as I don't really want to push it to the max - just a bit more torque would be appreciated. It arrived today and if I can get the time I'm going to fit it to my 4x4 TA on Monday.

The thing is, I'm not very experienced under the bonnet. The instructions are clear as far as connecting the wiring harness - I can see clearly where the wiring harness is to be to connected to the pressure connections. What I'm unsure about is where to mount the box itself in the engine bay using the cable ties. The instructions say somewhere not too hot, wet, or where it will vibrate excessively, and obviously it must be within reach of the harness. But I've no real idea where to put it.

Anyone who's used the TMC box or similar, able to tell me where they mounted theirs? Maybe R1NGA or AusPanda? What would be really really helpful is a photo.

 

[The Pretender]

Yep, i also would like to see photo's where you put a tuning box.

 

[R1NGA]

The one fitted to my mate's car was mounted in front of the battery, in its waterproof bag, nicely away from direct heat and as mounted on the battery tie-down webbing, pretty well insulated from vibration too. Seemed to work for him OK.

 

[TinyTurbo]

The one fitted to my mate's car was mounted in front of the battery, in its waterproof bag, nicely away from direct heat and as mounted on the battery tie-down webbing, pretty well insulated from vibration too. Seemed to work for him OK.

Thanks of this. I fitted my RaceChip One today, and have mounted it on the top of the battery using the strap - the harness would have had to pull rather tight to get it on the side like your mate's.

Installation was straightforward - the pictures RaceChip had first sent weren't for Panda or any TwinAir model, but after I questioned it they quickly sent me photos of the a Panda TA showing where to connect the harness.

There's no bag with the RaceChip, in fact they don't recommend using one citing condensation issues.

I did a 10 mile run out concentrating on performance, and then on the way back I drove exactly as I would have done previously if I wasn't in a hurry. My first impressions are that it works well - I don't know how accurate the claims of +17 HP and +29Nm are, but you can certainly feel the difference. Acceleration is noticeably faster, with a stronger mid-range pull. The extra torque is particularly noticable in 6th.

Economy (as much as I could judge from the cars trip computer on a shortish trip) was at least what I'd have expected from the standard set up,. Although of course if you use the extra performance you can't expect to match

I intend experimenting with the settings by adjusting the dial inside the box.

Well worth the the £109 I paid.

 

[Mercky]

Good value alright, I checked the cost for my 500 and its 129euro. A few questions - What are the internal adjustments? Also, how does it work with eco mode or does it only replace normal mode, can you bypass? Thanks, look forward to hearing how you get on with it.