I think Fiat are probably being very careful with Panda, as I wonder if 500 sales have fallen since they facelifted it, as what happened when they facelifted the Grande Punto.

The Pretender said:

Fiat could easily give the Panda a real facelift.
At this point it look like there will be no exterior changes, like the 500 had.
Bumpers, lights, everything stay the same.
Fiat could do, to the Panda, what they did to the 500, redesign all non metal parts.

With all non metal parts removed it would look like this 500.
And all those parts could be redesigned to give the Panda a real facelift.
Maybe they will do a Panda Evo.

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Haven't they already done this - isn't the current (319) Panda really a heavy re-working of the older 169 model? The bodywork was all redesigned, and the interior, but the mechanicals are not so different and the dimensions are almost the same. On that basis, the origins of the current car now date back 13 years and so it will surely be time for a new platform in the next Panda. Fiat's choice will presumably be either to move both the Panda and 500 to the same new platform, or to move the 500 to one and the Panda to another (perhaps from the Brazilian low-cost Fiats).

Rumor has it, that the next 500 will move to the B-wide platform.
Don't think the next Panda will do the same.

B-wide platform? Which other cars are on that platform?

puntofan01 said:

b-wide platform? Which other cars are on that platform?

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500L and future 500X.

The Pretender said:

Rumor has it, that the next 500 will move to the B-wide platform.
Don't think the next Panda will do the same.

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Does that mean it will get even larger? It's going the way of the bloated and ugly Mini at this rate. ?

JCarp16 said:

Does that mean it will get even larger? It's going the way of the bloated and ugly Mini at this rate. ?

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Most likely only the 5-door 500.

It the next model gets bigger I'm off to real city cars (smaller options)

The Pretender said:

500L and future 500X.

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So is that basically the platform from the Grande Punto then?

puntofan01 said:

So is that basically the platform from the Grande Punto then?

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I'd be amazed if they use that platform for the next 500 (and the Panda). Apart from the size (you'd end up with a 4 metre long 500, which would be almost as big as the 500L and 500X), the platform is now also 12-13 years old, having first surfaced in 2005 in the Grande Punto and the Corsa.

I have always been surprised that there was never a 5-door 500 using the stretched version of the Panda/500 platform as used in the Lancia Ypsilon. If the 500 does get bigger with the next generation I would imagine it would end up about that size, say 3.7m. If it gets much bigger Fiat may get more American sales but surely at the expense of European sales, where its small size helps.

Panda/500 wheelbase is 2300 and the Ypsilon 2388.

8cm makes all the difference!

Fiat Panda Lounge S with 105 hp TwinAir Turbo.

Rumor has it, that this Panda testmule has a new FireFly engine under the bonnet.
It's not clear if it is a 3 or 4 cylinder engine that got tested.

The Pretender said:

1.0 Trecilindrico aspirato da 80 cv
0.9 Twin Air turbo da 105 cv
1.3 Multijet da 95 cv

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I've got to say that the TA appealed to me when it first came out as an alternative to my Mk2 MJ, but it seems that turbocharging something that small to try and give the same outputs as a 1.4 four cylinder amto engine might have been a bridge too far.

Its real life fuel consumption figures don't seem to get anywhere near the EU figures (yeah, I know) but you might expect them to get reasonably close. Talking to a woman a couple of years go about her TA Panda, she seemed reasonably happy with the high 30s mpg she was getting running round town. But I had to contrast that with Mrs. Beard's Giulietta MA which returns 42-44 mpg when on longer runs but doesn't seem to drop below 40 when she drives to work which involves 10 miles of urban driving on the way there and 13 miles of sluggish motorway on the way back.

Even the old 156 2.0 Twin Spark used to get 34-35 mpg on the same journey.

By contrast, the 1.25 3-cylinder Ecoboost engine in the Fiesta got some very good reviews, not quite so good in the Focus and a bit of a slagging off when it turned up in the Mondeo.

As Dirty Harry once said: "A man should know his limitations."

Squadrone Rosso said:

I like the Panda interior. I do wish the dash storage area was lined to prevent marking.

It's honest, chunky & funky - just like the car

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Our old 156 TS had lined door pockets, the Giulietta MA that replaced it doesn't. It makes a difference when you put keys and the like in there. Probably just cost cutting. Although I often don't agree with all their comments, Top Gear have often said that FIAT Group products tend to have cheaper materials where you can't quite see them.

The Beard said:

Our old 156 TS had lined door pockets, the Giulietta MA that replaced it doesn't. It makes a difference when you put keys and the like in there. Probably just cost cutting. Although I often don't agree with all their comments, Top Gear have often said that FIAT Group products tend to have cheaper materials where you can't quite see them.

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I think that's commonplace in the car industry tbh.

To be honest, I think Plastic is a superior material to the likes of leather, suede / alcantara given the use, technical requirements and how they hold up over the say, 12 years of a car that's actually used as a car and not an investment to launder big sums of money.

I get that luxury car makers are always coming up with visually impressive new ways to milk money from people who will probably never use the car for significant periods of time, such as leather on the dash but I mean.. to look down on cars with 'cheap plastic' parts is so wrong when you think with the rational mind.

The current Panda is genius. The black plastics with the Panda lettering all over them adds character, texture and will - with the same 12 years of abuse - look much better on the other side than a leather lined Range Rover's interior and with much less care needed. Many cheaper cars age more gracefully in my opinion because the cheaper and less attractive finishes are better suited to real life.

But then it's not about making rational, functional and long lasting cars now. It's about churning out bland German-eske boxes that go like stink for 5 years until the DPF clogs and coincidentally, the finance is almost up and it 'makes sense' to trade it in for another. The economy challenges a lot of rational thinking.

Short: I'm not bothered about Fiat using cheaper materials because they serve a practical use. It bothers me when you get into a car that pretends to be premium but is not, e.g. the Ford Fiesta or VW Golf. A few bits of trim don't make it a luxury car folks, they're placed there to trick you into it though ;-)

The Beard said:

I've got to say that the TA appealed to me when it first came out as an alternative to my Mk2 MJ, but it seems that turbocharging something that small to try and give the same outputs as a 1.4 four cylinder amto engine might have been a bridge too far.

Its real life fuel consumption figures don't seem to get anywhere near the EU figures (yeah, I know) but you might expect them to get reasonably close. Talking to a woman a couple of years go about her TA Panda, she seemed reasonably happy with the high 30s mpg she was getting running round town. But I had to contrast that with Mrs. Beard's Giulietta MA which returns 42-44 mpg when on longer runs but doesn't seem to drop below 40 when she drives to work which involves 10 miles of urban driving on the way there and 13 miles of sluggish motorway on the way back.

Even the old 156 2.0 Twin Spark used to get 34-35 mpg on the same journey.

By contrast, the 1.25 3-cylinder Ecoboost engine in the Fiesta got some very good reviews, not quite so good in the Focus and a bit of a slagging off when it turned up in the Mondeo.

As Dirty Harry once said: "A man should know his limitations."

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The Ecoboost is also thirsty for its size - and they've had a fair few reliability issues. The TA is not alone in being thirsty for a small engine - check out the 'Real MPG' on honest John - the worst offenders appear to be Kia and Hyundai among the smaller cars. The TA is, bizarrely, not at its best in town. The mpg seems (relatively speaking) to be much better on the open road. I've also noticed that it seems to use a lot when cold/start-up (more than seems normal) - which explains why I get much, much better economy when driving over several hours.

SB1500 said:

...

Short: I'm not bothered about Fiat using cheaper materials because they serve a practical use. It bothers me when you get into a car that pretends to be premium but is not, e.g. the Ford Fiesta or VW Golf. A few bits of trim don't make it a luxury car folks, they're placed there to trick you into it though ;-)

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Especially when those 'premium' pieces of trim end up in the glove box because they've fallen off - as they did in my friend's new Fiesta.